I killed a spike today, it was the first spike I have killed in nearly a decade. For some reason our club is over run with spikes, as a matter of fact I have seen as many spikes as does the last few years. Half our club will not shoot a doe because their numbers are in decline and the other half will not shoot a spike because they feel it potentially is taking a future trophy out of the heard. My argument is that the harvesting of a spike is taking only one buck off our property whereas when a doe is killed you have taken away her potential to reproduce 6-10 or more bucks in her life. What is your opinion on shooting a doe vs a spike for the purpose of meat when the situation is like the one at our club?

I would say if you are trying to increase the population of deer you would be better off shooting the spike.

I would shoot a doe over any small buck. I'm in MS and it's illegal to kill spikes here anyway. If its just for meat a small doe is about as good as gets. If you kill a spike you know for a fact he's not gonna get any bigger, plus you can't eat his horns. What bucks you do see I would always let get bigger unless there big already than I would shoot them. You say if by shooting does they won't have the chance to reproduce 6-10 bucks in there life it won't matter how many she reproduces if you kill them when there spikes, and they never get the chance to get big.

I agree...it's according to what your goals are.

I'm not saying kill every spike we see, hell it took all I had to shoot that one today, I'm talking about our situation in which people have over hunted does to the point that we see less than 10-12 does per hunter on 1500 acres each year but we see an unbelievable number of spikes. I think our club is an example a piece of property that no longer needs unlimited doe harvest but an occasional spike harvest would be a better alternative to a doe.

I would not shoot either,if you need what does you have for population purposes then let em walk,leave the young bucks as well,like said earlier they will never get any bigger if you take them early,but it is really a matter of what you want out of your land. having a season long doe harvest does not mean you have to shoot a doe it is just a means of management that some properties need,and I agree everyone don't need to kill any does,but some do,and thats why its crucial to have it this way. if you need meat go to a prosseser and pay the prep. charge and you will not need to kill your young bucks or does problem solved.

if i were in your shoes and suspected the doe numbers are too low i'd get a wildlife biologist involved for a harvest recommendation.

Yikes.... well, it depends on what you're trying to accomplish. Me personally, I'm not willing to sacrifice a spike to get some deer meat. I'd rather eat meat from other means than take an immature buck out of the herd.

However, if you're the only one doing this, it shouldn't be a problem as I would certainly think the land can absorb the killing of one spike. If all the other members think like you do, I think it's a bad idea as everyone would be shooting spikes.

But, I may hunt for a little different reason than you do but neither of us is wrong.

I have never recommended killing spikes (or any other young bucks) since I began making deer harvest recommendations in the early 80's. I don't understand the purpose. Need population decreased, shoot a doe, got the right number, shoot nice bucks, need more deer, shoot only trophy bucks...Problem solved.

I think what your trying to say is that you don't think you have the doe heard to support an all out doe harvest club wide and you are more likely to see a spike than a mature deer worthy of a harvest. I would rethink the future plan that you want to implement. If you are only wanting fewer target bucks then shooting spikes only will not solve your problems because the does that get passed on will just make more spikes. Your likely going to have to get a biologist in there and have them figure out a harvest plan for you. It may mean less meat in the freezer at first but your patience, plan, and effort will pay off when your herd is regulated and you are passing on some of those deer because they are "only" 4.5yo 130 class bucks like gobblers

The only spike I will shoot will be a mature deer. I passed up a spike about 10 years ago that had a 14" spread and he looked to be a 2.5 year old. He was the very definition of a cull buck if you believe in that sort of thing. He ended up dying of old age I guess. We would see him just about every year for 4 years. He grew into a palmated 4pt with 2" g2s and nubs for brow tines and about an 18" spread. I have his sheds from the last year we saw him. I couldn't help but wonder about all the nice racked bucks we were taking out of the herd but then leaving him to spread his genes around.

I hate to say this, but honestly, far too many hunters have gone overboard on the QDM thing. Before QDM, does were the "sacred cows," and killing one made a hunter sub-human. Now yearling bucks are the sacred cows. Hunters seen to react violently when they hear of one being killed.

In a situation where doe numbers are low but buck numbers high, passing does and shooting more bucks may be warranted. And if more bucks need to be harvested, not only can the yearling age-class withstand more harvest than other age-classes (because they are the largest single age-class), but a club has the least amount of resources invested in yearling bucks. If good data indicates an area is producing a large crop of yearling bucks each year, that sex/age-class can handle some harvest.

BSK will probably disagree with this, but I am beginning to think that it is highly unlikely that you can stockpile bucks. Your neighbors have a lot to do with increasing mature buck populations on your land.
I saw about 20 does and 4 or 5 young bucks yesterday. We have not seen a 130 class deer in over 15 years for sure. Our cameras have pictures of very healthy deer and 110 inch bucks. Mostly night photos.
We continue to kill 15 or so does and 2 or 3 bucks every year. The people around us don't kill hardly any does and they have the older deer and more rut activity.
We are not hunting an enormous area (940 acres), but eventually, we should at least get lucky.
Summer planting is not feasible due to the land being on a lease to a timber company.
BTW, the jawbones we pull, show that our buck kills are 2.5 years old, of the few we kill.
Tying back to the topic, thinning does and letting little bucks walk, doesn't necessarily upgrade the buck size. It does increase the number of bucks for a period of time, and I'm not sure how long that lasts.

X2

if you are trying to increase your deer population then I think have the right idea.....

Make sure it is a good one or he will just say" in the south you should at least kill one doe per hundred acres" and when you ask him how it got that number he will say thats the average for that region. I quit listening at that point. After he rode around my property for about an hour without getting out and a free lunch thats the best he could do..... I sure Wish BSK lived close by!

I agree 100%. I have heard that 1 for evey 100 acres a hundred times and it is impossible for that to be true everywhere in this state. Maybe some places but not all of them.

How can you take the QDM thing too far? My response was that if his deer herd could absorb him killing a spike or two... do it! I also said that if you're the only one doing this (as in killing spikes), it shouldn't be a problem as I would certainly think the land can absorb the killing of one spike. But if all the other members think like he does, I think it's a bad idea as everyone would be shooting spikes.

I just think that QDM is doing the right thing for the deer herd. QDM never says that the killing of an immature buck will cause you to go to hell. If the herd can absorb the animal being killed, if you want, kill it. It's like loaning a few friends $100. I can do that but if everyone I know wants to borrow $100, well then, I can't do it.

I would say that it's not QDM.... it's the incorrect implementation of QDM that seems flawed.

With that said BSK, I do yield and highly respect your whitetail deer knowledge!!

I just think people blame QDM too often. QDM.... just do the right thing for the deer herd and put its health over your desire to burn powder.

May be the most accurate statements ever posted on this board.

I think I am in a very simular situation. I have seen my doe population fall way off. 10 years ago I had no neighbors that hunted, now every tract around me is hunted, that coupled with coyote kills I think has affected my population.

In responce I only shot one doe on this tract this year, and next year I will make it a buck only tract for maybe several years. I have other places that myself and other friends and family can go to shoot does.