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Re: Sentinal Heart Worm Meds
[Re: DoeNut]
#3887828
03/31/23 12:08 PM
03/31/23 12:08 PM
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Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 814 NE Alabama
Abbhudson
6 point
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6 point
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 814
NE Alabama
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... are the jumping from host to host? Crazy Yes...that's how infectious stuff works.
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Re: Sentinal Heart Worm Meds
[Re: cgardner]
#3887829
03/31/23 12:09 PM
03/31/23 12:09 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 72,727 Luverne, AL
Skinny
GUVNER
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GUVNER
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 72,727
Luverne, AL
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Ivermectin is basically alcohol or sugar to any singular cell organism there is. Thats why it works, it disinfects. It kills the common cold.Ivermectin is natures extra bleach.
"Never Trust Government" -- Smart people. "The Great thing we should Fear and the Weird Thing we Trust is Elon Musk" -- Me "You can be broke but you cant be poor." -- Ruthie-May Webster
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Re: Sentinal Heart Worm Meds
[Re: DoeNut]
#3887832
03/31/23 12:10 PM
03/31/23 12:10 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,130 Pike Road, Al
Mully
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,130
Pike Road, Al
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Not directed at you Mully, just my thought out loud: How the heck are heartworms becoming immune to Ivermectin ... are the jumping from host to host? Crazy If I recall I believe he actually said the heartworms are gaining resistance to the ivermectin compound and that parasites in general have a way of becoming resistant to certain meds.
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Re: Sentinal Heart Worm Meds
[Re: Mully]
#3887857
03/31/23 01:02 PM
03/31/23 01:02 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 22,260 colbert county
cartervj
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 22,260
colbert county
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Not directed at you Mully, just my thought out loud: How the heck are heartworms becoming immune to Ivermectin ... are the jumping from host to host? Crazy If I recall I believe he actually said the heartworms are gaining resistance to the ivermectin compound and that parasites in general have a way of becoming resistant to certain meds. True Arkansas is where the resistance started with Heartgard brand. Basically pet owners didn’t give dosages every month as required thereby allowing resistance to the med being built up by the heart worm. One must follow the directions otherwise resistance occurs. Pet owner were forgoing treatment in winter months or forgot a month happening. It was planned for that meds lasted longer than 30 days but not long enough for 60 days.
“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
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Re: Sentinal Heart Worm Meds
[Re: DoeNut]
#3887909
03/31/23 02:31 PM
03/31/23 02:31 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 22,111 USA
Remington270
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 22,111
USA
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Not directed at you Mully, just my thought out loud: How the heck are heartworms becoming immune to Ivermectin ... are the jumping from host to host? Crazy The same way that weeds become resistant to Roundup. It’s natural selection. The resistant ones live and spread their genes.
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Re: Sentinal Heart Worm Meds
[Re: cartervj]
#3887937
03/31/23 03:06 PM
03/31/23 03:06 PM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,116 Selma
odocoileus
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,116
Selma
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Ivermectin resistance is a known thing. It was first reported in New Orleans before Katrina hit. These worms exhibited a change in gene sequence that altered a P glycoprotein that triggered a resistance to macrocylic lactones. Then Katrina hit and these dogs were displaced to all over the country. These worms were able to pass on these genes to other worms. Still don't know exactly how prevalent it is, as most failures of prevention are due to poor compliance (ie giving correct dose every month). Ivermectin does not kill the adult worm in preventative doses. Adult worms are given a different drug to kill them. Preventives kill the microfilaria (larval hearworms) before they are able to mature into adults. The concern with preventatives and concurrent heartworm disease is high levels of microfilaria dying off and causing severe reactions.
. Basically pet owners didn’t give dosages every month as required thereby allowing resistance to the med being built up by the heart worm. One must follow the directions otherwise resistance occurs. Pet owner were forgoing treatment in winter months or forgot a month happening. It was planned for that meds lasted longer than 30 days but not long enough for 60 days
That is true for compliance issues, but doesn't lead to resistance being passed on as it's been identified as a genetic mutation. Heartworm transmission has to occur throught a mosquito. In some northern states, some practitioners will forgo treatment during winter months due to no mosquitos being present to vector transmission. Probably not the best idea, but their choice. In Alabama, we have mosquitos year round, so year round preventative is needed. I had a case not long ago where a client brings in a dog I suspected of severe end stage heartworm disease, though they insisted they had been on Heartgard every month. Hot positive for heartworms, and subsequently died due to liver and renal failure. In discussing the possibility of resistance, I asked where they had been getting the medicine. Their response was from an online pharmacy, and that the pharmacy never asked for a prescription from a veterinarian. Which is a huge red flag that it may have been dispensing counterfeit medications. I unfortunately have seen it before. A prescription is required before dispensing medication because we need to asses current heartworm status before we initiate preventative, due to the risk of a mass microfilaria die off causing reactions.
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Re: Sentinal Heart Worm Meds
[Re: cgardner]
#3888009
03/31/23 04:48 PM
03/31/23 04:48 PM
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 11,089 coffee county
goodman_hunter
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 11,089
coffee county
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Thanks for posting I'll read link when I get more time. Post more, I like info like this
"A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers"
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Re: Sentinal Heart Worm Meds
[Re: odocoileus]
#3888206
03/31/23 09:31 PM
03/31/23 09:31 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 22,260 colbert county
cartervj
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 22,260
colbert county
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Pretty good study done by some of my professors at Auburn. This study was done with heartworms that were not resistant, and had some pretty shocking efficacy data. The only drug with 100% efficacy was moxidectin (Advantage Multi, ProHeart). https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0304401711000185?casa_token=fIjMxxY3IwAAAAAA:tOkGxyyEsMNiHSBfRhh2KqYMHrEkxu5XOnF_8Kh-Tbj0GoI3E6VbyRr-CzNyjzwnf6ZpcKxrtw If I read that correctly only one group remained free of heart worms and it wasn’t the ivermectin group. I’m good friends with two vets and know several others. I get to listen to tales in the duck pit or traveling to and from camp. I’ve learned a lot of things LOL. My best friend gets all into exotics and graduated from Auburn. The other guy is younger and does dogs and cats but large animal too. His wife is into high dollar show horses. We met him at his house one time after having to pull a dead (for a long time) calf out of a cow. Damn he stunk!!!!! They always mentioned Arkansas as being where things seemed to have gone wrong for the meds. Different type mosquitoes maybe? I don’t recall all of that conversation.
“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
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Re: Sentinal Heart Worm Meds
[Re: cgardner]
#3888220
03/31/23 09:44 PM
03/31/23 09:44 PM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,116 Selma
odocoileus
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,116
Selma
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Carter, the only group that had 0% infection was moxidectin. Ivermectin and the other all had 7/8 dogs test positive, and have worms on necropsy. Now that being said, they injected 100 larvae and in each positive case, there were few worms per case. As such, the efficacy percentage is still high.
The resistance issue isn’t with the mosquito, it’s the actual heartworm that’s resistant. The mosquito is just the vector by which heart worms are spread. If I remember correctly, there was a pocket around the delta that exhibited resistance. But without genetic testing of worms, we don’t know exactly how prevalent it is, as most is lack of preventative compliance
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Re: Sentinal Heart Worm Meds
[Re: odocoileus]
#3888227
03/31/23 09:55 PM
03/31/23 09:55 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 22,260 colbert county
cartervj
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 22,260
colbert county
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Carter, the only group that had 0% infection was moxidectin. Ivermectin and the other all had 7/8 dogs test positive, and have worms on necropsy. Now that being said, they injected 100 larvae and in each positive case, there were few worms per case. As such, the efficacy percentage is still high.
The resistance issue isn’t with the mosquito, it’s the actual heartworm that’s resistant. The mosquito is just the vector by which heart worms are spread. If I remember correctly, there was a pocket around the delta that exhibited resistance. But without genetic testing of worms, we don’t know exactly how prevalent it is, as most is lack of preventative compliance That’s why I mentioned I wasn’t sure of the conversation, I just listened to them talk shop but they mentioned Arkansas and I’m pretty sure the Delta which I probably rolled right into AR. Shan sold a ton of Heartgard plus and we had our dogs on that until he said switch because of the failures in some dogs. I’m not sure what we’re giving now. The wife handles that but I’ll mention this study so we may be switching again. My Boston I found on the side of the road. She was heart worm positive, pretty bad case and had Ehrlichiosis. She had to be crated and careful to not get too active. She did have damage from the heart worms. I appreciate the link
“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
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