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For you snake experts - Edited, Updated #1754074
06/06/16 06:51 AM
06/06/16 06:51 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 138
Dothan, Alabama
timmytruck Offline OP
3 point
timmytruck  Offline OP
3 point
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 138
Dothan, Alabama
There have been three Water-Moccasins killed on my place in the last eight days. Two of them were of the "Cottonmouth" variety. One of the three had a black mouth. Are there different species of Water-Moccasins or are there just some "Cottonmouths" that don't have a white mouth? The black mouthed one was almost three feet long and bigger than one of the others that had a white mouth so it wasn't a juvenile.

EDIT: I Should have told the whole story in my first post. Its a little lengthy but here goes. I was on a tractor working a stump pile and my neighbors dog was in the pile trying to catch field mice she had seen. I had been working the pile for a few minutes when the snake crawled out of the pile revealing itself. I was trying to get my tractor bucket on the snake when the dog saw it. Do you know a dog can be as hard headed as woman sometimes? laugh Here I am hollering at the dog while trying to kill the snake when the inevitable happened. The dog bobbed when it should have weaved and got snake bit. I finally got the snake killed, saw the black mouth and for a moment thought that maybe this is a banded water snake. I checked the snake for fangs and my heart sank when I found them. I told my neighbor what had happened and around two hours later the right side of the dog's face was extremely swollen and she was a drooling badly. So there is no doubt it was a Water-Moccasin. It was not a Copperhead or a Rattler without rattles. My neighbor said the dog was still swollen this morning, lethargic but was wagging her tail. I pray she will be alright.

UPDATE: Saw the snake bit dog this evening. She ran wide open a good 200 yards tail wagging and excited to see us. The swelling in her face had gone down and looked near normal. She still had a lot of swelling in her neck but she is going to be fine. Seeing the snake strike and connect is something I won't soon forget. I do have to be better prepared to deal with situations like this as I'm in the process of clearing overgrown acreage that has ponds and I know this is not the last encounter I'll have with these belly crawling demons.

Last edited by timmytruck; 06/06/16 03:57 PM.
Re: For you snake experts [Re: timmytruck] #1754075
06/06/16 06:54 AM
06/06/16 06:54 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,633
Hoover (poor section)
J
Johnal3 Offline
it froze over
Johnal3  Offline
it froze over
J
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,633
Hoover (poor section)
This is flat out racist. I'm offended! laugh


Originally Posted by BPS
This is Aldeer! The place people come to vent their frustrations and completely change their stance a few minutes later... grin
Re: For you snake experts [Re: timmytruck] #1754076
06/06/16 06:55 AM
06/06/16 06:55 AM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 20,285
Northport, AL
GomerPyle Offline
Impatient Stinky Britches Wearin’ Off-Roadin’ Guru
GomerPyle  Offline
Impatient Stinky Britches Wearin’ Off-Roadin’ Guru
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 20,285
Northport, AL
I was always under the interpretation that Cottonmouth/Water Moccasin were interchangeable terms because they ALL had white mouths...

you sure the one with a black mouth wasn't a water snake? they can look very similar and man non-venomous snakes can make their head look flat/pointed like a venomous one when threatened...


There are 3 certainties in an uncertain world:

1. All Politicians Are Liars
2. All Gun Laws Are an Infringement
3. Taxation Is Theft
Re: For you snake experts [Re: GomerPyle] #1754078
06/06/16 06:57 AM
06/06/16 06:57 AM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 13,957
Mobile, AL
S
SouthBamaSlayer Offline
Gary's Fluffer
SouthBamaSlayer  Offline
Gary's Fluffer
S
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 13,957
Mobile, AL

Originally Posted By: GomerPyle
I was always under the interpretation that Cottonmouth/Water Moccasin were interchangeable terms because they ALL had white mouths...

you sure the one with a black mouth wasn't a water snake? they can look very similar and man non-venomous snakes can make their head look flat/pointed like a venomous one when threatened...


Water moccasin is a cottonmouth. It was most likely a water snake of some sort, non-venomous.

Re: For you snake experts [Re: timmytruck] #1754147
06/06/16 08:28 AM
06/06/16 08:28 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 8,423
A
Atoler Offline
14 point
Atoler  Offline
14 point
A
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 8,423
Cottonmouth and moccasin are the same thing. Most people ain't got a clue what they are looking at, when it comes to snakes. My mom told me she killed a big Ol moccasin one day, I went down by the pond to get rid of it, and it was a dang rat snake

Re: For you snake experts [Re: Atoler] #1754150
06/06/16 08:31 AM
06/06/16 08:31 AM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 20,285
Northport, AL
GomerPyle Offline
Impatient Stinky Britches Wearin’ Off-Roadin’ Guru
GomerPyle  Offline
Impatient Stinky Britches Wearin’ Off-Roadin’ Guru
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 20,285
Northport, AL
Originally Posted By: Atoler
Cottonmouth and moccasin are the same thing. Most people ain't got a clue what they are looking at, when it comes to snakes. My mom told me she killed a big Ol moccasin one day, I went down by the pond to get rid of it, and it was a dang rat snake


The dreaded Copperheaded Waterrattler....


There are 3 certainties in an uncertain world:

1. All Politicians Are Liars
2. All Gun Laws Are an Infringement
3. Taxation Is Theft
Re: For you snake experts [Re: Johnal3] #1754155
06/06/16 08:39 AM
06/06/16 08:39 AM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,329
Northeast Florida
BamaGrad85 Offline
10 point
BamaGrad85  Offline
10 point
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,329
Northeast Florida
Originally Posted By: Johnal3
This is flat out racist. I'm offended! laugh



Snake lives matter.... slap


I came, I saw, so I killed them all......Vern
Re: For you snake experts [Re: timmytruck] #1754158
06/06/16 08:41 AM
06/06/16 08:41 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,559
Hoover
mrfuzz Offline
10 point
mrfuzz  Offline
10 point
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,559
Hoover
Sounds like three good snakes.


my 2nd amendment guarantees your 1st amendment!


cixelsyd ton m'i tub (but i'm not dyslexic)
Re: For you snake experts [Re: Atoler] #1754161
06/06/16 08:44 AM
06/06/16 08:44 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,005
Round ‘bout there
C
Clem Offline
Mildly Quirky
Clem  Offline
Mildly Quirky
C
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,005
Round ‘bout there
Quote:
Most people ain't got a clue what they are looking at, when it comes to snakes.


This, for sure. Saw recently where someone had killed a 6-foot copperhead. WTH? Six feet?


"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter

"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013

"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
Re: For you snake experts [Re: Clem] #1754180
06/06/16 09:16 AM
06/06/16 09:16 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,237
colbert county
cartervj Online content
Old Mossy Horns
cartervj  Online Content
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,237
colbert county
Originally Posted By: Clem
Quote:
Most people ain't got a clue what they are looking at, when it comes to snakes.


This, for sure. Saw recently where someone had killed a 6-foot copperhead. WTH? Six feet?



6 feet ain't nothing, I've heard of an 8 footer laugh


“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
Re: For you snake experts [Re: timmytruck] #1754181
06/06/16 09:17 AM
06/06/16 09:17 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,237
colbert county
cartervj Online content
Old Mossy Horns
cartervj  Online Content
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,237
colbert county
I have trouble with the banded water snake versus moccasin at times. Killed a big moccasin last year and almost didn't kill it thinking it was a water snake.


“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
Re: For you snake experts [Re: Clem] #1754184
06/06/16 09:18 AM
06/06/16 09:18 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,633
Hoover (poor section)
J
Johnal3 Offline
it froze over
Johnal3  Offline
it froze over
J
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,633
Hoover (poor section)
Originally Posted By: Clem
Quote:
Most people ain't got a clue what they are looking at, when it comes to snakes.


This, for sure. Saw recently where someone had killed a 6-foot copperhead. WTH? Six feet?

Could you imagine? That thing would be as big as a dang basketball in the middle! laugh


Originally Posted by BPS
This is Aldeer! The place people come to vent their frustrations and completely change their stance a few minutes later... grin
Re: For you snake experts [Re: cartervj] #1754185
06/06/16 09:21 AM
06/06/16 09:21 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,633
Hoover (poor section)
J
Johnal3 Offline
it froze over
Johnal3  Offline
it froze over
J
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,633
Hoover (poor section)
Originally Posted By: cartervj
I have trouble with the banded water snake versus moccasin at times. Killed a big moccasin last year and almost didn't kill it thinking it was a water snake.

X2. I think it was James that posted a pic of a water snake in camp with them and everything about that snake looked like a moccasin except for its head. I normally don't get that close of a look before I've found a stick and get to whackin!


Originally Posted by BPS
This is Aldeer! The place people come to vent their frustrations and completely change their stance a few minutes later... grin
Re: For you snake experts [Re: timmytruck] #1754186
06/06/16 09:23 AM
06/06/16 09:23 AM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 8,304
Right behind you
Mbrock Online content
Fancy
Mbrock  Online Content
Fancy
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 8,304
Right behind you
If it don't have a white mouth it is not a cottonmouth. Water moccasin is an interchangeable term. Like has already been posted 95 people out of 100 couldn't tell the difference in a venomous and non venomous snake. I teach snake ID courses and it's a sad fact.

Re: For you snake experts [Re: Mbrock] #1754189
06/06/16 09:27 AM
06/06/16 09:27 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 8,423
A
Atoler Offline
14 point
Atoler  Offline
14 point
A
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 8,423
Originally Posted By: Mbrock
If it don't have a white mouth it is not a cottonmouth. Water moccasin is an interchangeable term. Like has already been posted 95 people out of 100 couldn't tell the difference in a venomous and non venomous snake. I teach snake ID courses and it's a sad fact.


What gets me is a juvy moccasin and a copperhead. Hard for me to tell them apart.

Re: For you snake experts [Re: timmytruck] #1754197
06/06/16 09:39 AM
06/06/16 09:39 AM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 10,459
coffee county
goodman_hunter Offline
Booner
goodman_hunter  Offline
Booner
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 10,459
coffee county
to be on the safe side i just kill em all


For without victory, there is no survival
Re: For you snake experts [Re: timmytruck] #1754198
06/06/16 09:41 AM
06/06/16 09:41 AM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 19,737
Pelham
B
Ben2 Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Ben2  Offline
Old Mossy Horns
B
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 19,737
Pelham
Who cares if it is venomous or not once it is big and intimidating it is time for it to be dead. Glad your place is 3 shy of where it started original poster!

Re: For you snake experts [Re: cartervj] #1754201
06/06/16 09:46 AM
06/06/16 09:46 AM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,836
The Boonies a.k.a. Pickens cou...
300gr Offline
8 point
300gr  Offline
8 point
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,836
The Boonies a.k.a. Pickens cou...
Originally Posted By: cartervj
I have trouble with the banded water snake versus moccasin at times. Killed a big moccasin last year and almost didn't kill it thinking it was a water snake.

Shoot first, identify later


Two roads diverged in the woods and I took the one with deep ruts,hills and mud.It may be bumpy but WHAT A RIDE!
Re: For you snake experts [Re: goodman_hunter] #1754205
06/06/16 09:47 AM
06/06/16 09:47 AM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,595
Odenville, AL
Flyway Offline
8 point
Flyway  Offline
8 point
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,595
Odenville, AL
Originally Posted By: goodman_hunter
to be on the safe side i just kill em all

When in doubt take em' out.


Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death! - Patrick Henry
Re: For you snake experts [Re: timmytruck] #1754226
06/06/16 10:39 AM
06/06/16 10:39 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,361
M
mman Offline
8 point
mman  Offline
8 point
M
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,361
I think all cottonmouths have a white mouth. I've seen so many people identify a snake as a "water moccasin" only to find out that it was a type of water snake.

Here's what I look for to determine if it is one of the 3 pit vipers found in America (rattlesnake, water moccasin/cottonmouth, and copperhead). All have pits between their eyes and nostrils, have diamond shaped eyes(cat eyes), and have single rows (as opposed to a split row)of scales between the anal vent and the tip of their tails.

When you check these things, they will have all 3, so you can identify it as poisonous with 100% accuracy.

You can even find a shed snake skin and determine if it was poisonous or not if you have the scale pattern below the anal vent. Non-poisonous ones split into 2 rows while poisonous ones remain a single row, and look the same as above the vent. Of course this also works for a snake that has it's head smashed or removed.

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