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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,000
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,000 |
Im 41 years old, and i LOVE to gamble!!!! So when are we all getting to getter to throw down some bets??? 
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 40,042 Likes: 135
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 40,042 Likes: 135 |
Can you break a #2 pencil, off hand, no rest, 175 yards, iron sights, no scope??
I'd like to see this, from anyone. How many shots do I get?  I would nog be worried about how many shots I could have. I would want to know how thick my eyeglasses could be. Still got better than 20-20 young man. 
"Why do you ask"?
Too many people spend money they don't have , on things they don't need, to impress people they don't know.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 40,042 Likes: 135
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 40,042 Likes: 135 |
I agre with you and BhamFred on the average , normal idea of a good remington , savage, tikka, ruger,winchester and so on , being just find for 300-500 yards shots. But when you start talking about 4 moa groups i feel , that i must reply. I feel strongly about killing a deer humanly. YOU telling people 4 moa accuracy is acceptable is WRONG! We as hunters owe the deer better than that! I love ELR shooting , but hate the idea of someone advising 4 moa accuracy for shooting a deer! Agree! I hunt super thick timber, longest shot is about 125 yds across a plot. But I want something that is accurate and capable of 1" @100 or less. 4 moa, folks that hunt thick timber/close shots could get away with that, but why? I'd have NO confidence in something that shoots that bad. Ya never know when that big buck will peek around a tree.
"Why do you ask"?
Too many people spend money they don't have , on things they don't need, to impress people they don't know.
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 282
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 282 |
4MOA is a 4" group at 400 yards. This is deadly accuracy for any normal, average, regular ole hunter. The kill zone on an average 125 pound deer is about 10" in diameter. This is humane and ethical. No bad info or advise here. IF a hunter can accomplish groups smaller than this, it is icing AND ice cream on the cake.
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,661 Likes: 1
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,661 Likes: 1 |
sbo, that is NOT a good rifle.....that is a GREAT rifle.  That was the first rifle I bought when I got back into hunting, back in 2010, that was shot with only the fore stock resting on a sandbag. Unfortunately since then, arthritis has taken a good hold on my hands and I'm not as steady. I bought a Vanguard S2 last year and I am trying to see if it will shoot as well as the S1, best I have gotten so far is 1/2 inch MOA.
Elite Omnia, Easton FMJ, Axcel Landslyde 5 pin slider.
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 282
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 282 |
4MOA is a 4" group at 400 Yards. This is NOT bad accuracy. 4MOA is 1" groups at 100 yards. 1 MOA spreads about 1" per 100 yards. (actually 1.047"). 1 MOA is a different size at different distances, 8" at 800 yards is still just 1 MOA.
1MOA is 1" at 100 yards.
2MOA is 2" at 200 yards.
3MOA is 3" at 300 yards.
4MOA is 4" at 400 yards.
and so on .......
For a non competition, non bench shooter in a hunting situation, this is realistic and reasonable expectations, and you will kill deer - plain, simple and period!!!
4MOA is NOT 4" at 100 yards. It is 4" at 400 yards. DUH.
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 282
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 282 |
You guys dont know what MOA is (apparently not??)??
1MOA - 1" at 100 yards (actually 1.047")
1MOA = 1" group at 100 yards
2MOA = 2" group at 200 yards
3MOA = 3" group at 300 yards
4MOA = 4" group at 400 yards
and so on and so on.
8MOA is 8" group at 800 yards, but is still (equal to) 1MOA.
Get it?
4MOA does NOT = 4" group at 100 yards.
Last edited by CPiper; 05/17/14 12:21 PM.
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,000
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,000 |
4MOA is a 4" group at 400 Yards. This is NOT bad accuracy. 4MOA is 1" groups at 100 yards. 1 MOA spreads about 1" per 100 yards. (actually 1.047"). 1 MOA is a different size at different distances, 8" at 800 yards is still just 1 MOA.
1MOA is 1" at 100 yards.
2MOA is 2" at 200 yards.
3MOA is 3" at 300 yards.
4MOA is 4" at 400 yards.
and so on .......
For a non competition, non bench shooter in a hunting situation, this is realistic and reasonable expectations, and you will kill deer - plain, simple and period!!!
4MOA is NOT 4" at 100 yards. It is 4" at 400 yards. DUH. DUH, YOU are really showing YOU stupidity! 4 inchs at 400 yards is 1 moa. You do not have the slightest clue what you are talking about!!!!!!!!!!
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,000
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,000 |
4MOA is a 4" group at 400 Yards. This is NOT bad accuracy. 4MOA is 1" groups at 100 yards. 1 MOA spreads about 1" per 100 yards. (actually 1.047"). 1 MOA is a different size at different distances, 8" at 800 yards is still just 1 MOA.
1MOA is 1" at 100 yards.
2MOA is 2" at 200 yards.
3MOA is 3" at 300 yards.
4MOA is 4" at 400 yards.
and so on .......
For a non competition, non bench shooter in a hunting situation, this is realistic and reasonable expectations, and you will kill deer - plain, simple and period!!!
4MOA is NOT 4" at 100 yards. It is 4" at 400 yards. DUH. YOU are an absolute MORON if you think 4 moa is 4 inchs at 400 yards. This is what makes my blood boil out of my skin!!!!! Ignorant people like you should not give advice on shooting 400 yards!!!!!!!! 10 inch at 1000 yards is 1 moa!! If you knew what you were talking about , it would be differant! 4 inches at 400 yards will never be 4 moa!! I will bet you 25,000 dollars right now on that!!!! You are giving out bad advice! You dont know what your talking about, and you say DUH to someone that knows and has forgot more about shooting than you ever will!
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 40,042 Likes: 135
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 40,042 Likes: 135 |
Now we're talkin' real MOA and real money! 
"Why do you ask"?
Too many people spend money they don't have , on things they don't need, to impress people they don't know.
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,340
Mr. Turkey
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Mr. Turkey
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,340 |
You take a hunter that has a few bad habits and is no better than a 2 MOA shooter, put him in a treestand or anywhere besides a perfect rest, and then give him a 4 MOA rifle and do the math. Don't forget to factor in wind, nerves, low light/visibility issues and so on. Sounds to me like a toss up on whether or not he's gonna hit a deer or anything else out past 100 yards or so.
I ain't gonna have a rifle that can't shoot better than I can shoot it. If a bolt gun won't shoot inside an inch at 100 yards I don't want it. They make new ones everyday that will.
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,000
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,000 |
2Dogs, it would be different if he new what he was talking about! 4 inchs at 400 yards will always be 1 moa! 4 moa at 400 yards is 16 inches! I will beat anyone 25,000 dollars on that!
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 282
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 282 |
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,000
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,000 |
Notice how he edited his post after i corrected him!!!!
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,000
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,000 |
Check out where this MORON said an 8 inch groups is 8 moa at 80 yards before he edits it to!! This guy doesnt know CRAP about minute of angle! MOA at 80 yards is .800 inchs!! Please dont listen to him!!!!!!!!!
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 40,042 Likes: 135
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 40,042 Likes: 135 |
2Dogs, it would be different if he new what he was talking about! 4 inchs at 400 yards will always be 1 moa! 4 moa at 400 yards is 16 inches! Just because I'm the clown, don't mean I ain't been rodeoin' a long time.
"Why do you ask"?
Too many people spend money they don't have , on things they don't need, to impress people they don't know.
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 14,831
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 14,831 |
4MOA is a 4" group at 400 Yards. This is NOT bad accuracy. 4MOA is 1" groups at 100 yards. 1 MOA spreads about 1" per 100 yards. (actually 1.047"). 1 MOA is a different size at different distances, 8" at 800 yards is still just 1 MOA.
1MOA is 1" at 100 yards.
2MOA is 2" at 200 yards.
3MOA is 3" at 300 yards.
4MOA is 4" at 400 yards.
and so on .......
For a non competition, non bench shooter in a hunting situation, this is realistic and reasonable expectations, and you will kill deer - plain, simple and period!!!
4MOA is NOT 4" at 100 yards. It is 4" at 400 yards. DUH. DUH, YOU are really showing YOU stupidity! 4 inchs at 400 yards is 1 moa. You do not have the slightest clue what you are talking about!!!!!!!!!! Leave him alone.... He's got it down to a tee... 
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,000
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,000 |
4MOA is a 4" group at 400 Yards. This is NOT bad accuracy. 4MOA is 1" groups at 100 yards. 1 MOA spreads about 1" per 100 yards. (actually 1.047"). 1 MOA is a different size at different distances, 8" at 800 yards is still just 1 MOA.
1MOA is 1" at 100 yards.
2MOA is 2" at 200 yards.
3MOA is 3" at 300 yards.
4MOA is 4" at 400 yards.
and so on .......
For a non competition, non bench shooter in a hunting situation, this is realistic and reasonable expectations, and you will kill deer - plain, simple and period!!!
4MOA is NOT 4" at 100 yards. It is 4" at 400 yards. DUH. DUH, YOU are really showing YOU stupidity! 4 inchs at 400 yards is 1 moa. You do not have the slightest clue what you are talking about!!!!!!!!!! Leave him alone.... He's got it down to a tee... Your right, i have to give hime 10% credit! 8 inchs is 1 moa at 800 yards, however he also said 4 moa is 4 inchs at 400 yards and 8 inchs is 8 moa at 80 yards, so overall he is 90% wrong. But 10% is better than nothing... I quess!
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 886
6 point
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6 point
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 886 |
I want to see the pencil get broke .
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 25,176 Likes: 153
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 25,176 Likes: 153 |
Im 41 years old, and i LOVE to gamble!!!! So when are we all getting to getter to throw down some bets??? I vote y'all do it at the local elementary school. After the match, you can head inside for a spelling lesson. You can kill two birds with one stone. Your welcome.
" I do view Jim Waltz as a really good Presidential candidate"
Bama_Earl
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