Aldeer.com Forums Alabama Deer Talk Serious Deer Talk Forum coyote rant

When you look at the end result, in most situations, coyotes are controlling total deer populations in the same manner as our doe harvesting as hunters have done in the past. You can say they are eating buck fawns or whatever you want to make it sound worse but in the end they are just controlling total population. Doe harvesting is the same, its just a means of controlling total deer populations. Over the next decades to come, coyotes are something we will have to learn to manage with and not believe that we can manage in the absence of. If you believe that they�re aren�t enough deer in your area then the #1 way of changing anything is through improving the habitat for deer and more specifically for fawning. The next step is to reduce your doe harvesting. On the other end of the spectrum, if there are satisfactory numbers of deer in your area and you are more interested in hunting mature bucks on your land and not having to spend half your hunts blasting does��then just allow the coyote to do its job of keeping your herd in check and under carrying capacities. The coyote is just a alternative population control tool to doe harvesting in this manner. The important thing is to recognize the level of impact that all parties in the circle are having on each other. It�s much easier to work with nature than to fight completely against it.

I don't want yotes making decisions on what deer to remove from the population. I'll do that myself.

You may like to have to harvest and process every doe on your property that needs harvesting annually but there are many landowners who do not. There are some people who own or lease land that are perfectly happy with taking out a doe or two for the freezer and then hunting a buck for the rest of the season. The idea of having to shoot 8-10+ does is not something they�re interested in. Not only is it a lot of work to get that many does out of the woods and taken care of, but it also adds a lot more human hunting pressure to the property that is not wanted by people pursuing older bucks.

Johnal3, and BhamFred summed it up very well. Most people have leases. You can not go on leases ans start burning or cutting to improve deer habitat, so trapping is the best option for most leases. BhamFred said it best= I dont want coyotes making the decisions on what deer to remove form the population, i will do that myself! I think that 80-90% of people on here feel the same way. I trully HATE coyotes. I know they need to exist, just like the buzzard. I hate them because , i have sean the faces of ranchers loseing money and small children sad from loosing pets to coyotes. Why must you insist on saying we should try to live with nature? America was built on fighting nature! Most people on here plant greenfeild= thats no 100% natural is it? Quail habitat, isnt all natural is it? I understand the concept of low pressure, and not wanting to shoot lots of does. But if you trap you get more bucks and does! Easy solution . Find a good trapper that will trap your land for hunting rights, that loves to bow hunt and needs meat= problem solved. Most people dont want coyotes. So why not just get ride of them if you can or if you need to. If you dont need the coyotes gone then your in luck i say.

You are right, very localized issue. I have had properties with low deer numbers and habitat modifications didn't help bring up our numbers. Coyote trapping did. There are also those properties that there are too many deer and the hunters will not do an adequate job of killing does to keep the numbers in check, especially with great fawning cover. Coyotes help us out tremendously on these places.

As noted before, it could get expensive - on one property we trap, we kill about a coyote AND a bobcat per 100 acres per year. at $100 per coyote and $100 per bobcat on 3,000 acres that is $6,000 per year, not an insignificant perpetual number.

I'm guessing in general the yotes, would pick the old, weak, and sick deer. Natures law of survival of the fitest is in play in this predator prey relationship. Theorhetically you should get a genetically superior herd by allowing natural predeation cause only the biggest and strongest survive to pass on their genes.


P.S. I respect all y'all's opinions, I'm just not nieve enough to take everything y'all say for 100% truth, no matter how much you chest beat about your credentials. If I could argue with James Andrews about tommy john surgery I would! Haha

Oh yeah I do shoot every yote I see.

Gobbler, i full agree with you. I threw out the 100 dollars a coyote price as an example of traveling 50 miles one way and not charging a set-up fee as some trappers do. I agree that 6000 dollars is on the high side for 3000 acres. I have worked for for professional like your self and can honestly say, I dont charge for the bobcats or raccons. I look at it as part of the bussiness. Sometimes i get opossom, coons,fox,and bobcat. I dont charge for any of them, just the coyote. My trappers i know do the same. I only trap and charge for coyote. If in season i can save the bobcat pelt, and resale. This would off seat any over run of bobcat catching one would have to do own a property trapping for coyote. So if you had someone trap 3000 acres and charge 50 for the coyotes, throw in the bobcats for free, would it be worth a free member ship and 1500 dollars? Maybe you could find a GOOD local trapper that you could trust and that shared the same management ideas that YOU have and get him to do it for free hunting rights? My only point is i feel trapping is a valueable tool, and a skill set worth passing down to the next generation

technically, yer prolly wrong about the sick/wounded/old deer being chosen. Yotes kill whatever presents itself first. During fawning season they target newborn fawns. My experience with fawns tells me the buck fawns are more active and more likely to get up and move, therefore putting themselves at greater yote risk. Back in my rehab days the buck fawns outnumbered the doe fawns by at least three to one. My field examinations of dead fawns, if sex is identifiable) follows that ratio pretty close.

Yall got this solved yet?

All I want is more turkeys. Yall can have the deer, coyotes, skunks, cats, dogs, armidillos and whatever else you want.

And what kind of animal would usually present it self first? a sick or injured or whatever animal. I would consider a fawn to be a "weak" animal in the overall herd, and the fawns that aren't eaten would be stronger, smarter, faster, better a hiding... than the ones that got eaten. Therefore only the best of the best fawns survive to adult hood. How can you argue against natural selection?

Man, I gotta be honest, I don't even know what this conversation is about anymore!

not even close to what happens....please give your PERSONAL experience and expertise with newborn fawns.......as opposed to something you heard at the hunting club..or on here.

the ones that survive are the ones that stay put better/longer and also are just lucky, as in lotto lucky. Also fawns of older mommas that put em in better hiding places and move em every time she feeds. And "faster" ain't got chitt to do with small fawns. As a yote hunts it will kill every fawn it comes to, hopefully there are a lot more fawns than the yotes can kill so that some actually survive to six months. Ain't got chitt to do with smart, just the odds....

I have zero experience with fawns. But you contradict your self in your own argument. You say the fawns that get eaten are randomly selected just like the lotto, but then You say the mother has an affect on the fawns survival. How can both of these be true. Is it completely lotto random or are there other factors that go into which fawns get preyed upon. I guess you don't believe in natural selection. Is it not natural preditory instinct to target the weak where the predator has less of a chance at injuring itself vs going after the strongest animal in the herd? This doesn't come from here or a camp fire. I learned this straight out of a zoological text book, this was some years ago though so my facts might be off. Listen I don't want a pissing match with you it just seems like the smart thing for a predator to do would be to target the "lesser" animals in a herd. Maybe yotes are dumb and don't care about their personal safety

Like I said I have no educational background with the yote deer relationship. I'm just saying that if the normal predator prey relationships exist predators prey on the weak and only the strongest prey survive.

do a search ,,,, do coyotes kill healthy deer

you really need to reread what Fred typed

Yes they do but wouldnt they prefer a weak one? If there was a three legged sick doe and a 250 peak health buck standing in a field which one will the coyote go for? Here's a good source of information.

Predator Prey relationship

All I'm saying is that natural predation does a good job of selecting the weak and therefore making the prey stronger better evolved.

Your making your self god when you say that you know better which animals should die than a coyote

Just one study but I think they're on my side

"Coyote predation is not a limiting factor to the deer population"

Also says that prey that are weak or sick are more likely to be preyed on by coyotes and that 6+ year old deer are preyed upon the same amount as fawns.

WRONG. Read Genesis 1.26 . Basicly it says= God gave man dominion over ,fish,fowl,cattle, and every thing that creeeth upon the earth. Now thats not word for word but close. So its not making your self God. God gave us dominion over coyotes.

If he wanted us to do all the killing why did he create predators? That verse does not say humans are required to take the place of coyotes in nature it simply says we rule over them. Let's turn this into a religious battle since we can't win the other, good tactic

Did you even reAd the article I posted specifically about the yote deer relationship?

i'm not religious

man being top predator nature gives me the right to contorll other predators ., it's called "competition" .

less of them the more i have . just that simple !!!!