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Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997 |
Huntfish2, 49er,
Define "hunting" please. I posted words the legislature used to describe hunting earlier. It's their place to define words they use in criminal statutes, not mine. Nowhere is the mere possession of a firearm defined as hunting in the law. If there is any doubt as to the meaning, the interpretation is supposed to be made in favor of the accused: A basic rule of review in criminal cases is that criminal statutes are to be strictly construed in favor of those persons sought to be subjected to their operation, i.e., defendants. Schenher v. State, 38 Ala. App. 573, 90 So.2d 234, cert. denied, 265 Ala. 700, 90 So.2d 238 (1956).
Penal statutes are to reach no further in meaning than their words. Fuller v. State, 257 Ala. 502, 60 So.2d 202 (1952).
One who commits an act which does not come within the words of a criminal statute, according to the general and popular understanding of those words, when they are not used technically, is not to be punished thereunder, merely because the act may contravene the policy of the statute. Fuller v. State, supra, citing Young's Case, 58 Ala. 358 (1877).
No person is to be made subject to penal statutes by implication and all doubts concerning their interpretation are to predominate in favor of the accused. Fuller v. State, supra.
A statute defining a crime must be strictly construed and "one cannot commit an offense under a statute except in the circumstances it specifies." Peinhardt v. State, 161 Ala. 70, 49 So. 831, 832 (1909), overruled on other grounds, Williams v. State, 177 Ala. 34, 58 So. 921, 923 (1912). I saw a cop wearing an orange vest with a loaded gun in the road at a wreck the other day. I don't define what he was doing as hunting from a public road. I saw some tree trimmers wearing orange vests in the road just yesterday morning and they were looking from the road into the trees. I don't interpret that as hunting from the road. The game warden who wrote the subject ticket was wearing green and had a loaded firearm on the railroad when he stopped Bucky. If the defintion of hunting is the mere possession of a loaded firearm, then the officer who wrote the ticket was hunting while on duty when he should have been working. If you people think it is constitutional to make the possession of a loaded firearm while walking back to your truck after hunting a crime to help stop people from hunting illegally, then you probably agree with Sarah Brady that guns should be banned to keep people from committing murder. It's the same flawed logic that gun grabbing liberals use to attack our right to bear arms. If the man who met Bucky with a loaded gun that day had been a robber instead of a game warden, Bucky had a gun without a bullet in the chamber because he was trying to appease game wardens who want to write their own laws. He would have been in trouble. Bucky has a right to bear arms to defend himself while walking back to his truck from hunting. The Constituion still applies there.
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997 |
Thanks for the link. (poster chose to delete it) A good example of why even a bow hunter should be armed for defense while they enjoy their other constitutional right to hunt. Robbers attack hunter who had no firearm
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 595
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 595 |
Patriot,
Go ahead and post your real name and I will be happy to check the BUDS grad list.
Patriot I have no doubt that you know Chris and Keith, you know details that have never been mentioned here. Ask them if I ever touched the rifle. Walking and looking is not illegal. It is called looking for an area to hunt. And by my own admission I was hunting a place to hunt. I had also hunted a place to park. If I was guilty of hunting from the moment I checked in; then I hunted before daylight, from a public road, through a school zone and through the truck stop by I65. I guess if I had had a fishing pole I would have been guilty of fishing from all those places as well. I checked in and drew a permit because that permit authorizes me to hunt and carry a weapon on a WMA.
Post some evidence to support your conclusions.
Until then I will truly miss you and I am not being sarcastic. You are obviously intelligent and offer good arguments. But I do believe there is a high probability you work for DCNR.
AW1(AW) Chuck (Bucky) Buchanan USN/RET.
The only easy day was yesterday.
Last edited by Bucky205; 02/09/11 07:18 PM.
"There are no easy days, not even yesterday"
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 417
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 417 |
Patriot
It is very low down for you to make fun of Buckey eye site.
I hope you have two good eyes.
I am a veterian so is my son, brother, nephew had an uncle in WWII 82 Airborn Div.
I think it was excessive to ban him from hunting for one year.
He has a right to his openion.
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 31,221
Grumpy Old Man
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Grumpy Old Man
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 31,221 |
My uninformed opinion is based on a lifetime of dealing with charlatans, 12 years in the USN, a 4 year college degree with a dual minor of Psychology and Criminology.
And somehow, through it all, you completely missed the founding pillar of our entire justice system ... Presumption of innocence, reasonable doubt, witness, evidence, proof of guilt. Any of those ring a bell?
My opinions and comments are my own. They do not reflect the position or political opinions of Aldeer or any of the Aldeer administration.
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 31,221
Grumpy Old Man
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Grumpy Old Man
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 31,221 |
You are not the only wounded service member.
While I was in the diving community in the USN, I knew several team members whose motto was "Adapt or Die" not "adjust to whine".
What exactly does "in the diving community" mean? Hell I was "in the community" at Basic. I even did some diving with the SeALs ... 3 or 4 times, they had to dive in the pool and drag my drowning ass up off the bottom.
Last edited by Out back; 02/09/11 09:59 PM.
My opinions and comments are my own. They do not reflect the position or political opinions of Aldeer or any of the Aldeer administration.
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997 |
If you want to know the original intent of 9-11-257, and the real definition of "hunting from a public road" check out the thread over in the General Forum entitled "Night hunters caught".
That's the intent of the law as it was first written. They screwed it up when they amended it to try to stop dog hunters from hunting where they were not supposed to. It didn't work, so it needs to be changed back like it was. Part of the job of the CAB is to recommend fixes to screwed up game and fish laws like this one.
Extortion is a crime. Extortion was not the intent of the legislature when 9-11-257 was written.
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 678
4 point
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4 point
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 678 |
If you want to know the original intent of 9-11-257, and the real definition of "hunting from a public road" check out the thread over in the General Forum entitled "Night hunters caught".
That's the intent of the law as it was first written. They screwed it up when they amended it to try to stop dog hunters from hunting where they were not supposed to. It didn't work, so it needs to be changed back like it was. Part of the job of the CAB is to recommend fixes to screwed up game and fish laws like this one.
Extortion is a crime. Extortion was not the intent of the legislature when 9-11-257 was written. 
I Have Stood Next To Death, and People Liked Him Better
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Posts: 307
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 307 |
This question is mostly for BhamFred, however I want everyone to see it.
Ok since I have been on here bitching about my ticket. And I have called everyone and there brother bitching about it. I am sure that the officer that wrote me this ticket has heard about it. And according to the powers that be in Montgomery she has or will be called on the carpet about it. (oh yea my ticket is on the other thread)
If I go hunting for coyotes on my land, and I have corn out for my deer, what is to say that she can't charge me with hunting deer out of season.
I mean if you can be charged with hunting while walking back to your truck during deer season, then really what is to say that I can't be charged with hunting deer out of season. I MEAN I WILL HAVE A GUN, and it will be loaded.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 37,028
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 37,028 |
I've seen it plenty of times... I checked one of the worst poachers in Greene Co a week after deer season ended, sitting in a shooting house on a greenfield with a 264WM...said he was coyote hunting. I said OK, have fun. But I kept a closer eye on him. In that situation I would wait for further evidence of DEER hunting...like a dead deer.... Wasn't hard to show he was HUNTING, just not exactly what he was hunting. Fella is waist deep in a pond, wearing waders, blowing a duck call, shotgun loaded with #4s...he's probably duck hunting.... you wouldn't be hunting coyotes over corn ...would ya???  troy
I've spent most of the money I've made in my lifetime on hunting and fishing. The rest I just wasted.....
proud Cracker-Americaan
muslims are like coyotes, only good one is a dead one
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 307
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 307 |
No I would not, but only 200 acres, so I would be close. Ok just wanted to ask that question. But just so you will know. Coyotes do eat corn. Got pictures to prove it. I can't find one, but is there a law against baiting coyotes?
And had you been a ass, could you have written him a ticket for deer hunting or not. That is the question.
Even if a ticket won't stick, it is a pain in the ass to get one.
Oh yea, what about wanton waste? can you get a ticket for killing a coyote and leaving it dead where it is. OR DO YOU HAVE TO EAT IT.
Last edited by robgillaspie; 02/10/11 12:31 PM.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 100
3 point
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3 point
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 100 |
I've seen it plenty of times... I checked one of the worst poachers in Greene Co a week after deer season ended, sitting in a shooting house on a greenfield with a 264WM...said he was coyote hunting. I said OK, have fun. But I kept a closer eye on him. In that situation I would wait for further evidence of DEER hunting...like a dead deer.... Wasn't hard to show he was HUNTING, just not exactly what he was hunting. Fella is waist deep in a pond, wearing waders, blowing a duck call, shotgun loaded with #4s...he's probably duck hunting.... you wouldn't be hunting coyotes over corn ...would ya??? troy Don't be so hard on Sammy
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 32
spike
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spike
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 32 |
Petty Officer Buchanan,
I apologize for the eye comment. I have much respect for your sacrifices. I remain adamant about your injuries not being related to the issue.
I am ex Petty Officer None of any body's business.
I never claimed or insinuated I was a Seal team member. Everything I stated about my family's and my own veterans status is the truth. I went through some dive training with 5 Seals from different teams. I also went through some pre-d dive training with a mobile unit. When you figure this out , it is no ones business but mine and I hope you can respect that.
I did not start this disagreement. I stepped from anonymity and said "Foul" when you said some pretty bad and incorrect things about those biologists. You even went so far as to try to bolster your argument by using minority bias like a playing card.
The biologist wrote you citation for a violation, he did not interpret the law , he enforced it. It is not his place or his job to decide which law or regulation to enforce.
The sad part of this ridicule towards DCNR folks is that some of them are the same one's that will put themselves into harm's way for you and others regardless of race, religion or political affiliation.
This is just an observation but it seems to me that getting shot at sucks pretty bad, whether you are in combat in a foreign country or trying to apprehend a meth-head that is night hunting to support his habit.
I never said that you do not have the right to keep and bear arms, to the contrary I am a staunch and active supporter.
Good luck with your case
OS1 Nun-ya
Patriot
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 595
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 595 |
Understood OS1, I enjoy your input, some of your points are valid. Chris will tell you that even at trial I commented positively on both. Chris and I argued over this for 2 days. I don't mean any disrespect toward Chris in any of this. He has a difficult job to do. I just do not agree with his opinion on this. I would have probably let it go after the first case. I had paid my fine and walked away. Then I found out that my hunting privlidges had been revoked.
Of liberty I would say that, in the whole plenitude of its extent, it is unobstructed action according to our will. But rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add “within the limits of the law,” because law is often but the tyrant’s will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual.
Thomas Jefferson
"There are no easy days, not even yesterday"
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 678
4 point
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4 point
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 678 |
I had paid my fine and walked away. Then I found out that my hunting privlidges had been revoked.
They are not hunting privileges they are rights. It's part of the Natural Law Also in regards to your carrying a weapon, you have the 14th amendment which was originally intended to require the states to protect individual liberties guaranteed by the U.S. Bill of Rights, of which the 2nd amendment applies But we all know the government routinely ignores/makes up laws as it goes
I Have Stood Next To Death, and People Liked Him Better
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,999
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,999 |
I have hunted Perdido since it opened and have never had a problem with Chris. Many times I have seen Chris help blood trail someones deer after hearing that they couldn't find it or it had crossed a property line. On the last hunt of the year I asked where Chris was and was told that someone had seen some bicycle riders on the management area and he was concerned with their safety and was going to let them be aware that a gun hunt was going on. There's a group of girls that ride horses on the management area but they have their orange on. My point is that I don't think Chris is all bad.
I don't know about your deal with the ticket and can only speak for myself. I hunt management areas only and if I walk down a RR or even approach a gate on the management area road I unload my gun. That way there is no appearance of hunting. I can't afford a ticket so I try not to give them a chance to write me one. I will back you up on this as well. Chris is not all bad, for that matter he isn't any bad... I have know Chris, his wife and younguns for a long time. Chris has and will continue to do what is expected of him. I have never once seen him act as if his badge and gun made him any different. Unfortunately like the Sheriff that was just in my office explained the arresting/ticketing officer is going to be the bad guy, it's just the way our society is and it sucks that it's that way. Anyone who works with the public will tell you that no matter what comes up, the officer, biologist, forester, hostess or whatever is always the one in the wrong... IMHO this is how most people act. I am not saying anyone is acting this way about Chris but it isn't fair to bash someone for doing their job, believe I've been there and will continue to be put in that situation. it's just a curse of the job. Have a nice day. Thanks to all of who have and still serve and protect!!!
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,130
Mildly Quirky
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Mildly Quirky
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,130 |
If hunting and fishing is a right, then there's no need for any laws, regulations, restrictions, licenses, seasons, bag limits or anything.
Nothing. Run free and hunt or fish at your leisure.
Same for driving. That might fall under "pursuit of happiness" for some people, or "liberty" for others, or "life" for just about everyone needing to go to the store for food or job to earn money.
So, don't pay taxes or get a driver's license or even a car tag.
Possessing and owning firearms is guaranteed by the Second Amendment, reinforced by the Supreme Court. So we don't need to pay for any permits, gun carry permits or pay anything related to those. Safety courses for hunters also would be moot.
When you get picked up and taken to court, argue these things and see how far it gets you.
"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter
"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013
"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,494
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,494 |
If hunting and fishing is a right, then there's no need for any laws, regulations, restrictions, licenses, seasons, bag limits or anything.
Nothing. Run free and hunt or fish at your leisure.
Same for driving. That might fall under "pursuit of happiness" for some people, or "liberty" for others, or "life" for just about everyone needing to go to the store for food or job to earn money.
So, don't pay taxes or get a driver's license or even a car tag.
Possessing and owning firearms is guaranteed by the Second Amendment, reinforced by the Supreme Court. So we don't need to pay for any permits, gun carry permits or pay anything related to those. Safety courses for hunters also would be moot.
When you get picked up and taken to court, argue these things and see how far it gets you. As I recall a number of years ago an amendment to the Alabama State Constitution was passed by a significant number of voters that hunting is a "right" in the State of Alabama. It did not state anything about it being an unlimited right to do as you please, only a right to engage in the act of hunting as allowed under the rules and regulations of the State. I am sure there are some on here that can come up with the exact amendment if needed.
"After all, it is not the killing that brings satisfaction; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport." Dr. Saxton Pope
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Posts: 10,997
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997 |
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Posts: 32
spike
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spike
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 32 |
To Outback,
Nope, I got it.
His presumption of innocence was removed when a witness provided evidence, beyond a reasonable doubt, that there existed a proof of guilt.
Bong
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