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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,057
on probation
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on probation
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,057 |
Didn't mean it that way just a point that nutrition has a big part in there ability to grow more hornage. It does get expensive. If you poured out bag after bag. But anything one can do can help his herd. Heck plant your food plots in clover or some soybeans. But to just say that it does not help that is just wrong. And if the hunter is wasting time and money on it than, as per statement Than how is that not enough. Anything is better than nothing. Heck just passing up 3.5 years is a good start for a lot of areas.
Last edited by Talltines; 02/11/14 01:22 PM.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,688
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,688 |
A fella can hunt a long time, on fine land in Alabama, and never see a 140" or larger deer. 90% of Alabama hunters will die having never seen a 140" deer. And it ain't because so many bucks get killed young (although I will agree that hurts, really hurts)....it's because they just ain't there. NO brag, but I've killed a butt-load of 4yr old and older bucks, only one of which was right at 140". In 20 years I might have seen 10 deer that would surpass 140", and I hunt 3+ days a week, every week, every year. I have paid $3500 and leased land by myself, from Cleburne Co to Macon Co, and son there just ain't many of those deer. The total majority of 5yr old Bama bucks will be "average mounters". Now I like to kill deer, and I won't normally kill 3.5yr old skinny racked bucks (killed one marginal this season), so I don't know that I'll ever walk a CLEARLY mature 120" buck.
I don't have a problem AT ALL with folks who like to target really big deer, but shoot fire guys, that's got to be crazy hard! I got invited to join a club in Dallas Co one time that had a 140" minimum....I just laughed. I asked them how many they killed last year, never did get a clear answer.
Oh, and I believe most bioloigsts will say this too: Genetics, genetics, genetics, and then age. (Not a believer in artificial nutrition) I see too many stud bucks killed on total trash land, telling me that God's natural palate is plenty good. If you believe in genetics, genetics, genetics, have shot a butt-load of 4 year olds and only one 140"er and want to shoot more ya need to find another place to hunt. IMO of course.
"Why do you ask"?
Always vote the slowest path to socialism.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,130
Mildly Quirky
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Mildly Quirky
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,130 |
Heck just passing up 3.5 years is a good start for a lot of areas. Yep.
"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter
"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013
"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,095
ishootatbux
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ishootatbux
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,095 |
A fella can hunt a long time, on fine land in Alabama, and never see a 140" or larger deer. 90% of Alabama hunters will die having never seen a 140" deer. And it ain't because so many bucks get killed young (although I will agree that hurts, really hurts)....it's because they just ain't there. NO brag, but I've killed a butt-load of 4yr old and older bucks, only one of which was right at 140". In 20 years I might have seen 10 deer that would surpass 140", and I hunt 3+ days a week, every week, every year. I have paid $3500 and leased land by myself, from Cleburne Co to Macon Co, and son there just ain't many of those deer. The total majority of 5yr old Bama bucks will be "average mounters". Now I like to kill deer, and I won't normally kill 3.5yr old skinny racked bucks (killed one marginal this season), so I don't know that I'll ever walk a CLEARLY mature 120" buck.
I don't have a problem AT ALL with folks who like to target really big deer, but shoot fire guys, that's got to be crazy hard! I got invited to join a club in Dallas Co one time that had a 140" minimum....I just laughed. I asked them how many they killed last year, never did get a clear answer.
Oh, and I believe most bioloigsts will say this too: Genetics, genetics, genetics, and then age. (Not a believer in artificial nutrition) I see too many stud bucks killed on total trash land, telling me that God's natural palate is plenty good. If you believe in genetics, genetics, genetics, have shot a butt-load of 4 year olds and only one 140"er and want to shoot more ya need to find another place to hunt. IMO of course. Not sure if you're agreeing with me, or saying I should've killed more 140's??? I think we've got about 9 narratives going on in this one thread! Hehehehe! Seriously, if you have hunting club land in Alabama that you believe has a huntable population of 140+ deer, I'd like to hear more about it. Photos maybe? And not just that one deer we've all gotten on a trail cam and still talk about for years, but a high probability to see and kill some 140, 150, 160 deer most hunting seasons. Seriously, IF that's the case, memberships would be $10,000 a year, but more than likely someone would have turned it into a pay-hunt paradise. You realize most Midwestern outfitters don't have that kind of land, right? If you consider my math, I'm averaging seeing a 140+ deer about once every couple of seasons--In Alabama. Frankly I believe that's OUT-DADGUM-STANDING! I have had to hunt more than you can realize, all over half the state to do that.
We were on the edge of Eternia, when the power of Greyskull began to take hold.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,688
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,688 |
A fella can hunt a long time, on fine land in Alabama, and never see a 140" or larger deer. 90% of Alabama hunters will die having never seen a 140" deer. And it ain't because so many bucks get killed young (although I will agree that hurts, really hurts)....it's because they just ain't there. NO brag, but I've killed a butt-load of 4yr old and older bucks, only one of which was right at 140". In 20 years I might have seen 10 deer that would surpass 140", and I hunt 3+ days a week, every week, every year. I have paid $3500 and leased land by myself, from Cleburne Co to Macon Co, and son there just ain't many of those deer. The total majority of 5yr old Bama bucks will be "average mounters". Now I like to kill deer, and I won't normally kill 3.5yr old skinny racked bucks (killed one marginal this season), so I don't know that I'll ever walk a CLEARLY mature 120" buck.
I don't have a problem AT ALL with folks who like to target really big deer, but shoot fire guys, that's got to be crazy hard! I got invited to join a club in Dallas Co one time that had a 140" minimum....I just laughed. I asked them how many they killed last year, never did get a clear answer.
Oh, and I believe most bioloigsts will say this too: Genetics, genetics, genetics, and then age. (Not a believer in artificial nutrition) I see too many stud bucks killed on total trash land, telling me that God's natural palate is plenty good. If you believe in genetics, genetics, genetics, have shot a butt-load of 4 year olds and only one 140"er and want to shoot more ya need to find another place to hunt. IMO of course. Not sure if you're agreeing with me, or saying I should've killed more 140's??? I think we've got about 9 narratives going on in this one thread! Hehehehe! Seriously, if you have hunting club land in Alabama that you believe has a huntable population of 140+ deer, I'd like to hear more about it. Photos maybe? And not just that one deer we've all gotten on a trail cam and still talk about for years, but a high probability to see and kill some 140, 150, 160 deer most hunting seasons. Seriously, IF that's the case, memberships would be $10,000 a year, but more than likely someone would have turned it into a pay-hunt paradise. You realize most Midwestern outfitters don't have that kind of land, right? If you consider my math, I'm averaging seeing a 140+ deer about once every couple of seasons--In Alabama. Frankly I believe that's OUT-DADGUM-STANDING! I have had to hunt more than you can realize, all over half the state to do that. Jackson Co. has more bucks in the Alabama Whitetail Record Book than any other county and by a pretty wide margin. Most counties had a head start, as we have only had a deer season since the late 60's. My club has no openings. But I think I could put a 140" in front of ya for 10K.
"Why do you ask"?
Always vote the slowest path to socialism.
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,254
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,254 |
No doubt the season needs to be changed to include as much as two weeks into February, I guess the question is what part of the state. Using the states own conception dates as guidance, it seems the entire state needs to be extended. Average conception date samples show in the following counties the average sample dates of conception:
Colbert County - Jan 28
Jackson County - Jan 23
Limestone County - Feb 9
Madison County - Jan 29
Perry County - Jan 27
Randolph County - Feb 6
Walker County - Feb 3
Because of the various stocking areas of deer with different genetic breeding dates it is almost impossible to break the state into two or three hunting zones to allow the hunters the ability to hunt the rut. Incorrect grasshopper: Colbert County - 5 out of 7 samples averaged Jan 20 something. The other 2 were the first of Jan Jackson County - 4 of 6 sites were the first week of Jan or last of Dec and 2 were Jan 19 and 29th. Limestone County - 4 of 7 sites were end of Dec, 3 were last week of Jan or 1st of Feb Madison County - Jan 30 Perry County - Jan 19 Randolph County - Feb 6, yes, 7 deer sample ranging from Jan 18 - Feb 22 Walker County - Jan 4 These are the correct average dates from all samples.
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,688
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,688 |
Thanks Gob, those numbers look more like it for Jackson Co. Exactly what I been sayin'. I bet those late Jan numbers came off the Jones Farm.
"Why do you ask"?
Always vote the slowest path to socialism.
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,215
12 point
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12 point
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,215 |
Genetics Shemetics. I'll bet the average south Alabama 3.5 yr old who has good natural forage and or crops to eat will be bigger racked than a 2.5 yr old N AL or TN deer living in marginal conditions.
Genetics and "Cull" deer are the most common excuses used by people with little to no trigger restraint. I've got pics of a NICE mature 8 in Baldwin Co. And a few nice mature 8's, 9's & 10's on our lease in Conecuh County. They all have one thing in common. AGE. They were all allowed to live to express what they can be.
You can have good deer ALMOST anywhere in Alabama if you're willing to wait for them to get old enough. Fertilization of existing browse and summer plots will take care of nutrition, supplemental feeding is USUALLY not necessary, although IM SURE it helps some.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,688
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,688 |
Genetics Shemetics. I'll bet the average south Alabama 3.5 yr old who has good natural forage and or crops to eat will be bigger racked than a 2.5 yr old N AL or TN deer living in marginal conditions.
Maybe, maybe not. Where do you think most of the NA deer were stocked from? They are the same deer.
"Why do you ask"?
Always vote the slowest path to socialism.
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Matt Brock
Unregistered
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Matt Brock
Unregistered
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ikillbux, there are plenty of properties that consistently produce and have huntable 140+ deer every season. EVERY season. No doubt most AL hunters will never see a 140", much less kill one, but there are certainly properties that produce them very regularly. Those properties do it without protein feed, supplements, or anything special. They just do it. I agree with 2dogs. If you are looking for 140" deer and have killed one in 20 years, I would be searching elsewhere.
It's not individual properties that do it, it's more like areas. Certain areas do it often. Find one and hunt it.
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Matt Brock
Unregistered
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Matt Brock
Unregistered
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As for nutrition, the best bang for your dollar is native vegetation management, NOT protein feed. Putting out a few feeders on your property a few months out of the year has made less than a 1% difference in body weights and antler quality. True facts. Not here say. That's science. AU biologist was right. Of course it makes a difference in a enclosure. You can control ALL the variables of a deer's life, including what it eats every day. Placing a feeder in a wild herd, where they have endless options in natural vegetation, does not attract the deer enough for them to make a difference. They visit that feeder an hour a day. They are feeding on other stuff for the other 23 hours.
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Matt Brock
Unregistered
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Matt Brock
Unregistered
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I am NOT anti-feed. I am pro habitat and trigger restraint. That produces big deer.
That, and I'm too poor to feed deer. So are most other folks.
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,687
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,687 |
I am NOT anti-feed. I am pro habitat and trigger restraint. That produces big deer.
That, and I'm too poor to feed deer. So are most other folks. Best post this year! kcorB ttaM for President!
"Never met a deer that I didn't like" - QDMAV8R
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,130
Mildly Quirky
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Mildly Quirky
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,130 |
I am pro habitat and trigger restraint. That produces big deer. Bazinga.
"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter
"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013
"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,095
ishootatbux
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ishootatbux
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,095 |
ikillbux, there are plenty of properties that consistently produce and have huntable 140+ deer every season. EVERY season. No doubt most AL hunters will never see a 140", much less kill one, but there are certainly properties that produce them very regularly. Those properties do it without protein feed, supplements, or anything special. They just do it. I agree with 2dogs. If you are looking for 140" deer and have killed one in 20 years, I would be searching elsewhere.
It's not individual properties that do it, it's more like areas. Certain areas do it often. Find one and hunt it. ^^^Completely agree^^^. We see multiple large bucks (140's and up) come from pretty much every county each year, but that northern 1/3rd of the state has been bonkers in recent years. My main point was that it's some combination of crazy/arrogant/misguided if you're hunting in Alabama and ONLY shooting 140+ bucks.
We were on the edge of Eternia, when the power of Greyskull began to take hold.
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