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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,095
ishootatbux
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ishootatbux
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,095 |
I'm actually good with that answer...I feel like it's honest and genuine. It's actually refreshing just to hear someone say it. It just always seems like the narrative is "We don't see bucks until the rut" (or at least that's the argument that was posed when I read articles back when it was being petitioned). I believe that's what caused many folks to ask "you can't see a buck in 3.5 months????"
And in the end we're just bantering opinions. One hunter enjoys/appreciates the rut experience. I do too, but no more so than a batchelor group coming to a white oak on Oct 15th. (I actually like the early season grouped-up bucks better than the late season chasing). Thus I am worried silly about losing early season time. Again, just opinions and preferences, nobody's wrong.
We were on the edge of Eternia, when the power of Greyskull began to take hold.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 14,185
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 14,185 |
I actually like the early season grouped-up bucks better than the late season chasing Same here. I like patterned bucks a lot better than ones that follow no rhyme or reason.
"You think I care? Roll Damn Tide"
Have you tried Google?
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 375
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 375 |
I'm glad ya'll got it, most of us in NA were getting tired of the whining. I live and hunt in the SW zone, and even I was tired of the whining. Quite honestly, I haven't really seen anything very impressive as far as MATURE bucks being killed in February yet. One or two, but most that I've seen killed thus far have been piss-ants. People have a right to kill whatever they want...fine by me if it's "club legal" or whatever where you hunt. But, some of the same ones who pissed and moaned the most about wanting February hunting so they could have a better chance at "mature" bucks, are the ones killing the bucks that would have been mature in a year or two. Hard to have mature bucks to hunt next year if you kill them this year as "juveniles". I'm no expert by any means, but that much I know for sure. This is exactly the case for most! As I live and hunt this extended area also and this has been the norm the last ten days. I disagree. I personally know of 9 4 1/2 or older bucks killed in Baldwin County in the past week (3 of them today) and some others that were probably 3 1/2. However, there were several younger deer killed as well. The extension has made a huge difference here. I agree it made a huge difference in Baldwin County for 3.5+ year old bucks being seen and killed.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,689
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,689 |
2Dogs, I'm not familiar with the stocking of Jackson county, but what about the rest of the sample conception dates/areas of northern Alabama? Perhaps those samples were taken from areas like the Jones Farm where the buck/doe ratio is skewed toward does, deer were stocked from different areas. Maybe they are accurate dates. In your post you show Jackson to have the earliest conception date. Did you cherry pick? I doubt Jackson's date's are the earliest in NA. Matt Brock has posted NA does not need Feb. hunting. The area he manages and surrounding area has a very early rut, I think it peaks early December. I hope you don't want to shut those folks down during their rut, only to tack those days on in Feb. I spoke to Chris Cook at length about this very subject last year. He assured me that there would be NO Feb. deer hunting in Jackson County. I fully expect him to be a man of his word.
"Why do you ask"?
Always vote the slowest path to socialism.
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,275
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,275 |
Guys, I swear I'm not trying to argue or be contentious, but what's the big deal about hunting the rut? Just an honest question. Please give some thought to your answer before you just fire back at me out of aggravation. Seriously, when you have 3.5 months of hunting, what's the big deal with the rut? At least, what's the big enough deal about it to cause the ruckus we've created about season date extensions? let me throw my 2 cents in here. We don't kill anything but mature bucks and mature bucks have a tendency to be nocturnal even when not pressured. Throw in some hunting pressure and they become like vampires, never moving until it is dark. I could probably kill 10-15 "bucks" if I wanted to, but I'm looking for wallhangers, if he's not 130" or better he's getting a pass from me. I'm not saying that's the way everyone should do it, just the way we do it. They don't get to be 4, 5 or 6 years old by wandering around aimlessly in daylight asking for someone to whack them. The only time they move during daylight is early bow season and when they are after a hot doe.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,130
Mildly Quirky
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Mildly Quirky
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,130 |
They don't get to be 4, 5 or 6 years old by wandering around aimlessly in daylight asking for someone to whack them. This is one thing that gets me about Alabama hunters, and most deer hunters who are looking for bigger bucks. Not the meat hunters or those who are satisfied with whatever. Fine and dandy. You're not hunting giant mature bucks? No problem. Enjoy your legal hunting. I like hunting that way too, sometimes. Last week of this season if I saw something brown it was going to be dead. But for those who want mature bucks, big antlers, the 'wall hangers' and then say they can't see any but shoot a 3-year old that scores 115 or 120 and wonder why they can't see any "big, mature bucks" ... it's obvious. They don't get to 4 or 5 or 6 years old when they're dead at 2.5 and 3 years old. The BEST thing that could happen for anyone wanting to hunt, grow or see more mature bucks - the 4-yo or older bucks - is to actually hunt somewhere like in Iowa or Kansas or Kentucky with one (or two) buck season limits and where hunters pass on 140-class bucks. When you see a 140-inch buck and say "Ah, OK, THAT's what one looks like, and he'll probably be 150 or maybe 160 next season" ... that makes an impact. Seeing a 160-incher on TV doesn't do the same thing. It's like watching The Masters and then being able to walk the fairways at Augusta National. Or like watching baseball on TV but then attending a Braves game and recognizing that "crack" of the bat is different or the speed of the pitches is faster than appearing on TV. It opens your eyes and awareness. Again, if you like hunting legally and aren't worried about giant bucks and are happy with your hunting, fine. That's all cool. But if you want mature bucks and believe you can have/grow/keep them on your property, learn what a mature buck is, what the body size dictates, what the habitat around your land offers them, and then decide to let them walk and actually gets some age and maturity. Only then can it make a difference.
"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter
"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013
"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 11,005
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 11,005 |
Last edited by goodman_hunter; 02/11/14 09:00 AM.
"A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers"
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,021
6 point
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6 point
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,021 |
Yep, That About Sums It Up.
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,057
on probation
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on probation
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,057 |
They don't get to be 4, 5 or 6 years old by wandering around aimlessly in daylight asking for someone to whack them. This is one thing that gets me about Alabama hunters, and most deer hunters who are looking for bigger bucks. Not the meat hunters or those who are satisfied with whatever. Fine and dandy. You're not hunting giant mature bucks? No problem. Enjoy your legal hunting. I like hunting that way too, sometimes. Last week of this season if I saw something brown it was going to be dead. But for those who want mature bucks, big antlers, the 'wall hangers' and then say they can't see any but shoot a 3-year old that scores 115 or 120 and wonder why they can't see any "big, mature bucks" ... it's obvious. They don't get to 4 or 5 or 6 years old when they're dead at 2.5 and 3 years old. The BEST thing that could happen for anyone wanting to hunt, grow or see more mature bucks - the 4-yo or older bucks - is to actually hunt somewhere like in Iowa or Kansas or Kentucky with one (or two) buck season limits and where hunters pass on 140-class bucks. When you see a 140-inch buck and say "Ah, OK, THAT's what one looks like, and he'll probably be 150 or maybe 160 next season" ... that makes an impact. Seeing a 160-incher on TV doesn't do the same thing. It's like watching The Masters and then being able to walk the fairways at Augusta National. Or like watching baseball on TV but then attending a Braves game and recognizing that "crack" of the bat is different or the speed of the pitches is faster than appearing on TV. It opens your eyes and awareness. Again, if you like hunting legally and aren't worried about giant bucks and are happy with your hunting, fine. That's all cool. But if you want mature bucks and believe you can have/grow/keep them on your property, learn what a mature buck is, what the body size dictates, what the habitat around your land offers them, and then decide to let them walk and actually gets some age and maturity. Only then can it make a difference.  Thank you for this. That is what always irritates the Haties out of me is the guy that shoots all the 2-3 year olds he can and says there aren't or there can not be any big buck Just eats me up. Age, Nutrition, And then Genetics it take all of them. I have no problem with meat hunters or a man that is happy with what he has. I have a problem with the guy complaining there are no big bucks and you see pics of him with 3 small 6-8pts at 110in. each.
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 11,356
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 11,356 |
My grandpa said 40 years ago that dead turkeys don't gobble!
The turkey part was because Coosa County had a fall season and the guys were bad about shooting big gobblers when they flew up to roost.
The same logic applies to shooting 3.5 and younger bucks. Assuming mature bucks are your thing.
Alabama Hog Control, Inc. www.alabamahogcontrol.comBarry Estes The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 14,185
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 14,185 |
Age, Nutrition, And then Genetics it take all of them. Nutrition and genetics don't mean squat if you don't let bucks get of age to grow decent racks.
"You think I care? Roll Damn Tide"
Have you tried Google?
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,095
ishootatbux
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ishootatbux
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,095 |
A fella can hunt a long time, on fine land in Alabama, and never see a 140" or larger deer. 90% of Alabama hunters will die having never seen a 140" deer. And it ain't because so many bucks get killed young (although I will agree that hurts, really hurts)....it's because they just ain't there. NO brag, but I've killed a butt-load of 4yr old and older bucks, only one of which was right at 140". In 20 years I might have seen 10 deer that would surpass 140", and I hunt 3+ days a week, every week, every year. I have paid $3500 and leased land by myself, from Cleburne Co to Macon Co, and son there just ain't many of those deer. The total majority of 5yr old Bama bucks will be "average mounters". Now I like to kill deer, and I won't normally kill 3.5yr old skinny racked bucks (killed one marginal this season), so I don't know that I'll ever walk a CLEARLY mature 120" buck.
I don't have a problem AT ALL with folks who like to target really big deer, but shoot fire guys, that's got to be crazy hard! I got invited to join a club in Dallas Co one time that had a 140" minimum....I just laughed. I asked them how many they killed last year, never did get a clear answer.
Oh, and I believe most bioloigsts will say this too: Genetics, genetics, genetics, and then age. (Not a believer in artificial nutrition) I see too many stud bucks killed on total trash land, telling me that God's natural palate is plenty good.
Last edited by ikillbux; 02/11/14 10:58 AM.
We were on the edge of Eternia, when the power of Greyskull began to take hold.
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 11,005
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 11,005 |
that pic above is from a camp with brown its down mentality.but there have been several bigger bucks than that one taken off the land.that aint even the biggest we got on the property now.not saying i disagree.i'll let them walk.its just aggravating.because the next guy shoots them.people let the bucks walk and shoot all the does.and they carry the big buck genes too
"A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers"
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,130
Mildly Quirky
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Mildly Quirky
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,130 |
Plenty of 140-inch bucks could, and would, grow in Alabama in many areas if given the chance to become 5-year olds.
Age, nutrition, genes. The last one can't be fully expressed without the first two being allowed to occur.
"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter
"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013
"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,095
ishootatbux
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ishootatbux
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,095 |
Age, nutrition, genes. The last one can't be fully expressed without the first two being allowed to occur.
[/quote]
I'm for sure not an expert, I'm just repeating what I heard straight from the mouth of an Auburn biologist. He said hunters waste a ton of time and money on nutrition. He said it sure doesn't hurt, just doesn't believe it helps enough to matter. I enjoy feeding them, and getting pics, but I tend to agree with him.
We were on the edge of Eternia, when the power of Greyskull began to take hold.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,689
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,689 |
Age, nutrition, genes. The last one can't be fully expressed without the first two being allowed to occur.
I'm for sure not an expert, I'm just repeating what I heard straight from the mouth of an Auburn biologist. He said hunters waste a ton of time and money on nutrition. He said it sure doesn't hurt, just doesn't believe it helps enough to matter. I enjoy feeding them, and getting pics, but I tend to agree with him. They must have nutrition of some kind, and if it's all natural, some is of much better quality than others. All nutrition does not come out of a bag. I can manage my property to provide quality natural nutrition, timber harvest, burning, plantings and such. Guy 3 miles over does nothing natural or out of a bag, my deer are bigger and healthier. Growing "big" bucks to maximum is a 3 legged stool, however only 2 legs we can directly effect. Genetics, ya play the cards you're dealt.
Last edited by 2Dogs; 02/11/14 12:16 PM.
"Why do you ask"?
Always vote the slowest path to socialism.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,130
Mildly Quirky
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Mildly Quirky
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,130 |
"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter
"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013
"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,130
Mildly Quirky
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Mildly Quirky
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,130 |
He said it sure doesn't hurt, just doesn't believe it helps enough to matter. His opinion. Everyone has one, of course.
"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter
"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013
"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,057
on probation
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on probation
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,057 |
Age, nutrition, genes. The last one can't be fully expressed without the first two being allowed to occur.
I'm for sure not an expert, I'm just repeating what I heard straight from the mouth of an Auburn biologist. He said hunters waste a ton of time and money on nutrition. He said it sure doesn't hurt, just doesn't believe it helps enough to matter. I enjoy feeding them, and getting pics, but I tend to agree with him. [/quote]  All I can Say Is What!!!! And Most Biologist most of them only look at what a deer herd should be and what the carrying capacity of land is. Most of them don't look at How can they build a trophy herd. There are very Few Biologist that work with Trophy management. Go by a deer farmers ranch sometime that has local deer in it and see how big those boys are. It because the Age, Nutrition and Genetics. Heck drive down Bell rd in the middle of Montgomery and look in that guys high fence.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,130
Mildly Quirky
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Mildly Quirky
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,130 |
Hang on, now, you're talking about high fences and uber-stuff vs. helping-managing-providing good habitat in the wild, supplements and such. Two different things. And most hunters-landowners don't, to support the biologist's statement, do enough to matter ... putting out a few bags of RackWhopper BioAntlerCornFeed each year doesn't flip the switch.
Age, plus good habitat maybe with minerals and supplements IF you can afford it and IF you do enough year-round to help the genetics, all combine. It's possible to do those things but it takes $$$ and commitment and, likely, a lot of land or neighbors doing the same (which is tough) and patience. Not a lot of folks do that or can do that or have the patience.
As for fences and deer farms and TDM, that's a different discussion.
"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter
"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013
"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
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