Aldeer.com Forums Alabama Deer Talk Serious Deer Talk Forum Deer hunting: Rifles, wounding, recovery, and trailing dogs - South Carolina Study

This very interesting and well written study of Deer Rifle/Ammo effectiveness including recovery difficulty and the use of blood tracking dogs. This study both answers and raises a number of questions for Southern deer hunters.

Here are some excerpts:

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"A total of 493 deer were harvested during the study including 305 antlered deer and 188 antlerless deer. Hunters fired 603 shots to harvest these deer and were therefore, about 82 percent successful with their shooting...

Importance of a trained dog in recovering dead deer

•Class 1 deer did not run or did not leave hunter’s sight. Dog not necessary, anyone would recover deer.
•Class 2 deer ran short distances, left good sign and good visibility in habitat. If an attempt to recover deer was made it would have been located easily without a dog.
•Class 3 deer ran significantly further than Class 1 or Class 2 and left little or no evidence of hit. Trailing condition involved heavy cover, wetlands, etc. The average hunter would get a friend and struggle to recover deer without a dog.
•Class 4 deer were judged to be unrecoverable without use of a dog. These 24 deer traveled significantly further than Class 1, 2 & 3 deer. If sign was found it was always well away from the scene and typically this sign was found by the dog. Recovery involved extremely thick habitat, wetlands, water, etc."
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Included in the study were:
Rifle caliber
Ammunition type
Distance to deer
Shot placement vs recovery

This is indeed an excellent and understandable presentation.

http://www.dnr.sc.gov/wildlife/deer/articlegad.html

Your thoughts?

lungs hanging in the bushes is a good thing , i'll stick with lung shots . i like the front shoulders

Good info.

Good article! Thanks for posting. Good to have a study that proves what I've been saying for years:

>>>Significant difference between bullet types. This study indicates that rapidly expanding bullets lead to deer running less often and less distance and when they run they leave better sign.<<<

A .308 Ballistic Tip in the shoulder gives you a DRT deer. Still, it won't take long for Troy to disagree.

Those guys in that study are lot better shots than my hunters. No way do they get a deer with 82% of the shots. I'm amazed every year how grown men shooting a scoped rifle with a rest can miss a doe eating grass 75 yards away.

I may be the minority, but I also take out the front shoulder. With Muzzleoader and Rifle. Like to see em fall in sight.

ballistic tips aren't "rapidly expanding" big game bullets, they are fragile varmint bullets. Quick enough???

Y a know, I said it before, I killed a LOT of deer with Nosler ballistic tip bullets handloaded in a 270Win. For sure well over a hundred, mostly does. Some in greenfields, some take em as they come in the woods. Close and waaaaayyyy the heck out there. I killed a LOT of them DRT.

Will they kill most of yer deer DRT??? Probably, but they screw up enough that I won't ever shoot one at a deer again if I have any other choice.

LOL - I knew I could count on you. But the scientific study specifically mentioned Ballistic Tips as an example of "rapidly expanding" bullets. In this case, I'm gonna accept the egghead definition.

So there.

x2..... With you on this.... As much thick cover and planted pines as we have...... No need in fighting the jungle to track a deer.... I would rather lose a little meat than lose my flesh and a pint of blood tracking them through jungles.....

Troy,

Like so many aspects of the shooting sports world, bullet design and construction have not remained static. When Nosler first introduced the "Ballistic Tip" bullet they were all quite fragile, especially those under 30 caliber. These bullets have been redesigned. Today there are two types of Ballistic Tip bullets marketed by Nosler, the Ballistic Tip Varmint and Ballistic Tip Hunting. The former is designed for explosive expansion and the latter is designed for deer size game.

The point of the ammunition section of the article is deep penetrating "premium" controlled expansion rounds are not needed for Whitetail deer.

PCP and I have an ongoing debate about BTs and their effectiveness on deer....

I agree one does not need deep penetration controlled expansion bullets when shooting nice broadside 100# does in a greenfield.

Give me a shot at a 220# six year old buck at 70 yards hard quartering away and I'll gladly take that "premium" bullet all day every day. Just my actual field experiences killing a couple of deer over the last 45 years......

>>>PCP and I have an ongoing debate about BTs and their effectiveness on deer....<<<

Yea, and I guess we will continue until I finally lose a big buck with a BT, and then I will quietly go out and buy some moose bullets.

Preacher, since I have admitted to killing a LOT of deer with BTs in a 270..have you ever used Nosler Partition "moose" bullets?????

btw, how the heart thingy doing these days??? Hope well....

Heart is still ticking, back still hurts. Thanks for asking!

I have shot many deer with "moose bullets", though not specifically the Nosler Partition. I use a Colorado Bonded bullet in my 7x30 Waters 14" Contender, and its absolutely reliable in performance. It will punch a hole all the way thru any deer from any angle. Unless you hit the spine, the deer is gonna run 100 yards or so and be dead. I think that's the best approach to take with a handgun that size.

I've shot deer with Core Lokts in various calibers and got similar performance. That's what I bought my daughter for her .243. I sure don't want her shooting NBT from that gun.

I use a Barnes copper bullet in my ML. Its a 175g bullet, and at a mv of 2425 it hits deer just like a centerfire rifle and performs just like the other bullets. Deer usually run off, but never very far and always dead and always complete penetration.

If'n I was gonna shoot a .270, I would use a harder bullet in it. I don't think there is enough diameter in it for a NBT to always exit. I did shoot a few deer with the Contender with 120g NBT and didn't always get penetration. I have seen others hunting with me shoot NBT in the smaller calibers and I didn't like the results.

But for my .308, I still like the NBT. If I shoot a deer with it, its probably gonna be a big buck, and I want him DRT. The NBT at 2920 or so will punch a huge hole all the way thru him and he ain't going far, if he moves at all. That's just my experience, and I could someday be proven wrong. I'll admit it if I am.

Good hunting to all!

I found it interesting several years ago when reading David Morris book on hunting/killing trophy deer that he shot 180gr NBTs out of a 300Weatherby for long range(300-500) shooting . He stated that the NBT opened up reliably at extended ranges in that weight/calibre....

Couple years ago I read where he had a couple of bad experiences with those same bullets/loads. Lost a couple of deer, had a couple of hard recoveries. He no longer shoots NBTs.

main prob I had with the 270/130 was I felt the performance was not consistant from bullet to bullet.

+1 on that. used NBT for years but not anymore. i mostly let my daughter kill the does anymore so i will be using my 300 win mag with 180 accubond all year this yr. very rarely have i ever had to help track a doe very far. seems the deer people always lose are the big bucks. they are just tougher and harder to bring down. factor in they don't give you much time for a good shot + buck fever = just asking for it with a ballistic tip.

Fred ... not sure I understand ... Are you shooting Nosler partition now?

There are plenty of other options for softer bullets than the NBT. I started out using the Remington factory loads in my .308 back in the early 70s and used them about 15 years. I dunno if they called them Core Lokts back then, but they worked fine. I switched to Federal Premiums that used a Sierra BTSP for about a decade, and those were definitely softer bullets than the Remingtons; put big holes thru the deer and usually DRT. When I started handloading my rifle ammo in early 90s, I tried some of the NBT. Got amazing performance from the first deer I shot with it and haven't changed since in the .308. My experience with them in the smaller calibers left me less than satisfied.

I shot a doe with the Contender and a 120g NBT and she ran off like I hadn't touched her. No blood at all, but I found her dead about 50 yards down the trail. I recovered the bullet - it had mushroomed nicely, but the little gun didn't have enough power to push that ultra-soft bullet all the way thru. I think you gotta match the bullet to the gun.

J.D. Jones loved the NBT in his .30 caliber Contender wildcats and killed all sorts of critters in Africa with them. But then one trip he tried the new .338 NBT and found it didn't work well at all in his guns. Don't judge a bullet by its performance in any one gun or caliber. It might work just fine in something else.

all I shoot are Nosler Partitions in 270/130, 264/125, and 7mmRM/140. I do shoot some 95 gr Fusions in a 243 shooting does.

I've been reloading Hornady SST 165g but cannot find a supply any longer. I can get 180g Partitions ... Weighing my options

what cartridge are you loading?