|
S |
M |
T |
W |
T |
F |
S |
|
|
|
|
|
1
|
2
|
3
|
|
4
|
5
|
6
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
10
|
|
11
|
12
|
13
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
17
|
|
18
|
19
|
20
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
24
|
|
25
|
26
|
27
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
31
|
|
|
104 members (Turkey, JA, hue, 7PTSPREAD, Canterberry, woodsrider, johnv, Cedar, burbank, Robert D., abolt300, scrape, Bigem1958, Tree Dweller, Huntnwork, Maggie123, Blessed, Grokamole, Gizmo76, Wade, thayerp81, desertdog, gog1015, Yellahammer, slipperyrock, HBWALKER14, ronfromramer, Chiller, 44MAG, marlin78, Johnal3, Young20, somedude, 000buck, Bmyers142, knock him down, Sixpointholler, Joe4majors, CAM, sumpter_al, coosabuckhunter, BamaGuitarDude, GomerPyle, Driveby, hallb, FPPop, Ridge Life, Bandit635, MS_Hunter, rickyh_2, IMISSALDEER, J_Martin, Obsession, Stu, sj22, Remington270, HSV. HUNTER, Quack Quack Bang, NotsoBright, CNC, Skillet, Davyalabama, Pwyse, ts1979flh, AU67Skeeter, Dubie, Fishduck, HDS64, WEMOhunter, twaldrop4, walt4dun, chris18, jwalker77, El_Matador, NoHuntin, Skullworks, canine933, chill, clayk, SawtoothRidge, Hornhntr, BCLC, Paint Rock 00, quailman, wareagul, Zbrann, Clayton, chrismims, bambam32, capehorn24, Parker243, foldemup, 3Gs, blazer625, Bustinbeards, klay, Petey, 7 invisible),
1,059
guests, and
0
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Booner
|
|
Booner
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997 |
NightHunter,
You have any unbiased scientific reports that says it doesn't? Just curious...or do your believe all us lowly biologist have no idea what we are doing and we are just trying to dictate what you do?
I haven't been able to find any at all... one way or the other. Looks like as long as qdm has been around there would be at least one.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,678
Freak of Nature
|
|
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,678 |
49er, it's obvious no one on aldeer can answer your questions. I suggest you go to the QDMA web site forums and ask ALL your QDMA/QDM questions.
"Why do you ask"?
Always vote the slowest path to socialism.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,999
10 point
|
|
10 point
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,999 |
NightHunter,
You have any unbiased scientific reports that says it doesn't? Just curious...or do your believe all us lowly biologist have no idea what we are doing and we are just trying to dictate what you do?
I haven't been able to find any at all... one way or the other. Looks like as long as qdm has been around there would be at least one. The costs are so high to do the studies that they can't get funding. Body weights and antler size also can drastically depend on rain. My thoughts are it would take 10 plus years to do this type of study and most researchers aren't going to put that kind of time into a project. They might, I don't know. Most folks putting their money in research want results faster than that IMO.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Booner
|
|
Booner
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997 |
That leaves only personal opinions for us to go on. Thanks for the honesty.  Most here won't admit to that. Some would give up their left nut before they would admit qdm is an unproven collection of theories.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,713
10 point
|
|
10 point
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,713 |
I just finished up some business here in Montgomery and killing a little time before I pick up ElkHunter for lunch. I read the title of the post and just snickered and thought, "Oh boy, I can't wait to read this thread!"
First of all, WMD, I am glad I finally convinced you that I am NOT a strict trophy deer mgmt guy and that if a 2 yr old buck is killed, the individual is not going to the devil.
As a member since 1994, I believe in the QDMA philosophy and it 100 percent works. QDM is not TDM. QDMA, along with other things, asked for more involvement, participation, understanding, discipline and putting something other than yourself, first.
QDMA allows for that first-time hunter or even a first-time hunter who is 30 years old, to shoot any buck of desire. However, the common objectives stay the same. In QDMA, sorry, but there is no place for the selfish hunter and putting others first, which includes the game we hunt and the land we hunt.
Before anyone bad mouths The QDMA, get on its website and do a little research and its philosophy. When you bad mouth the QDMA talking about antler size and killing all the does you can, it is evidence of ignorance on your part.
QDMA is a great conduit for education and it welcomes all.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,999
10 point
|
|
10 point
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,999 |
That leaves only personal opinions for us to go on. Thanks for the honesty. Most here won't admit to that. Some would give up their left nut before they would admit qdm is an unproven collection of theories. I would also back that up with years of data. Data is not scientific research, it only shows trends. I have been keeping data on multiple properties in AL for years. I can say DEFINITIVELY that QDM principles and at least decent land management does produce the following: 1. Better age class structure 2. Better sex ratios 3. Better recruitment numbers 4. Overall larger bodied bucks and does 5. Overall larger antlered bucks in the older age classes This is purely based off of deer harvested that I have access to across the state on multiple managed tracts. We also do population survey/estimates as well.
Last edited by NightHunter; 06/06/13 08:31 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 972
6 point
|
|
6 point
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 972 |
By the way I in no way agree with killing spikes, four or five points unless you are a kid a woman or a new hunter that has not killed but a few deer in your life and then I only agree with taking one or two and then you need to step up your game.
So you cant see why anybody would kill this 5 1/2 year old 205LB 5 point? In my mind he was just as hard to kill, no matter how many points he has. Counting points doesn't mean a thing, you said it earlier in your post when discussing the 110 inch 10 point. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,515
8 point
|
|
8 point
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,515 |
Tell you what 49er, you take a 1000 acre tract of land and I will take the neighboring 1000 acre tract of land - anywhere in the country where whitetail deer live. I'll practice QDM and you manage your tract ignoring all the principles of QDM. I will GUARANTEE you that my tract will have a better balanced deer herd, more older age class bucks, a more intense rut and an overall better hunting experience.
To argue with QDM after 25 years of proven results all over the country is just plain silly.
Oh, and QDM has nothing to do with antlers. Yes, higher scoring deer can be a part of it, but it is more about age, nutrition and a balanced herd. Most true QDM managers view the jawbone and the scale as the measurement of a trophy, not the rack.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,713
10 point
|
|
10 point
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,713 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 6
spike
|
|
spike
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 6 |
Thanks guys for all the replys and info! I have 160 acres and have 14,000 acre hunting club around me. They are currently on an 8 point or better buck rule and harvest does. I have noticed an increase in the amount of bucks on my property in the 3 and 4 year old range. I rattle up deer reguraly and have killed some nice bucks in the past years. I have currently started a QDMA branch in South West Alabama and just wanted to get yalls opion and see how many of yall believe in the QDM principles! Thanks!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 14,831
Booner
|
|
Booner
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 14,831 |
Tell you what 49er, you take a 1000 acre tract of land and I will take the neighboring 1000 acre tract of land - anywhere in the country where whitetail deer live. I'll practice QDM and you manage your tract ignoring all the principles of QDM. I will GUARANTEE you that my tract will have a better balanced deer herd, more older age class bucks, a more intense rut and an overall better hunting experience.
To argue with QDM after 25 years of proven results all over the country is just plain silly.
Oh, and QDM has nothing to do with antlers. Yes, higher scoring deer can be a part of it, but it is more about age, nutrition and a balanced herd. Most true QDM managers view the jawbone and the scale as the measurement of a trophy, not the rack. If the two tracts are neighboring and 49er shoots whatever.....it will negatively impact your your herd.......deer do cross property lines you know.....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Booner
|
|
Booner
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997 |
droptines, To argue with QDM after 25 years of proven results all over the country is just plain silly. It's silly to call biased personal opinions scientific proof of anything.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,898
10 point
|
|
10 point
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,898 |
If I am not mistaken didn't Al Brothers have a seminar on QDM at the 1988 deer expo in Mobile?
Grandma said...Always keep a gun close at hand, you just never know when you might run across some varmint that needs killing...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,999
10 point
|
|
10 point
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,999 |
droptines, To argue with QDM after 25 years of proven results all over the country is just plain silly. It's silly to call biased personal opinions scientific proof of anything. Don't miss that I can back up mine with true harvest numbers...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 37,028
Freak of Nature
|
|
Freak of Nature
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 37,028 |
it's beyond silly to say QDMAs practices won't/can't/don't work....actually it's beyond stupid....
I've spent most of the money I've made in my lifetime on hunting and fishing. The rest I just wasted.....
proud Cracker-Americaan
muslims are like coyotes, only good one is a dead one
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,560
Freak of Nature
|
|
Freak of Nature
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,560 |
Yes we use it, and yes it works.
LUCK:::; When presistence, dedication, perspiration and preparation meet up with opportunity!!!
- - - - - - - -A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take everything you have. Thomas Jeferson - - - - - - - -
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,515
8 point
|
|
8 point
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,515 |
Tell you what 49er, you take a 1000 acre tract of land and I will take the neighboring 1000 acre tract of land - anywhere in the country where whitetail deer live. I'll practice QDM and you manage your tract ignoring all the principles of QDM. I will GUARANTEE you that my tract will have a better balanced deer herd, more older age class bucks, a more intense rut and an overall better hunting experience.
To argue with QDM after 25 years of proven results all over the country is just plain silly.
Oh, and QDM has nothing to do with antlers. Yes, higher scoring deer can be a part of it, but it is more about age, nutrition and a balanced herd. Most true QDM managers view the jawbone and the scale as the measurement of a trophy, not the rack. If the two tracts are neighboring and 49er shoots whatever.....it will negatively impact your your herd.......deer do cross property lines you know..... I realize that. My tract will STILL be better even if he is doing that. Seen it proven too many times to not believe in it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,515
8 point
|
|
8 point
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,515 |
droptines, To argue with QDM after 25 years of proven results all over the country is just plain silly. It's silly to call biased personal opinions scientific proof of anything. Oh, there is plenty of proof out there. You just choose to ignore it. And even if there wasn't, just use a little common sense for God's sake. It's not that complicated.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,678
Freak of Nature
|
|
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,678 |
Tell you what 49er, you take a 1000 acre tract of land and I will take the neighboring 1000 acre tract of land - anywhere in the country where whitetail deer live. I'll practice QDM and you manage your tract ignoring all the principles of QDM. I will GUARANTEE you that my tract will have a better balanced deer herd, more older age class bucks, a more intense rut and an overall better hunting experience.
To argue with QDM after 25 years of proven results all over the country is just plain silly.
Oh, and QDM has nothing to do with antlers. Yes, higher scoring deer can be a part of it, but it is more about age, nutrition and a balanced herd. Most true QDM managers view the jawbone and the scale as the measurement of a trophy, not the rack. Doesn't have to be different properties. You can take your 1000 acres that has huge mature timber ( it can even be pine  ) , no food plots, too many does and too few older age class bucks. Then you decide you want to implement a few QDM practices, timber thinning, burning program, quality year round food plots, taking does as needed, letting younger age class bucks walk. I'm thinking this is what 1000s of landowners , managers and hunters have done with much success. They see heavier birth weights, heavier mature weights, better overall health, better buck to doe ratio, more older age class bucks and yes, larger antlers. People that have done this and there are many don't need a study to tell them it works! It's not for everyone, FINE, but to say it doesn't work because one doesn't agree with it is beyond stupid. 49er's not that stupid, he just wants to pick a fight. Still think he should go to the QDMA site and see if those fellows can give him some "data".
"Why do you ask"?
Always vote the slowest path to socialism.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Booner
|
|
Booner
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997 |
2dogs,
There's part of your problem. You're relying on QDMA staff for your information. Those guys make their living selling their ideas to you. They are about as biased as you can get.
On the other hand, I wouldn't make a good experimenter either, because I'm biased as well. The best people to conduct an accurate experiment would be those who are not affected one way or the other by the results.
Your idea of proving that qdm works won't work. If you've ever studied scientific methods, you should know that the scenario you described will not yield an accurate comparison for accurate evaluation.
There should be a "control" tract and a manipulated tract that are as similar as possible to begin with. Every non-qdm variable that is not part of the experiment should be allowed to affect both tracts as equally as possible in a parallel set of circumstances and time ... weather, predation, timber harvest, etc.
Accurate data would have to be collected before, during and after the experiment. Even the methods of collecting data have an effect on the accuracy of the experiment. Every aspect of the experiment is open to criticism of its accuracy.
Your scenario is the way most qdm'ers evaluate the results of their manipulation to form their opinions, but it prove anything.
|
|
|
|
|
