Aldeer.com Forums Alabama Deer Talk Serious Deer Talk Forum Westervelt Letter

Y'all are crazy if you think westervelt or any timber company gives a crap about your $500 deposit. Considering how much they make per acre off of timber, they don't have to cater to you. Your at the mercy of their requests. As Jeremy said, if you don't like it there's a Tom, Dick, and Harry waiting to take your spot. As for the "recommendations" on how to grow your wildlife. If you don't know what deer herd management is, that's your own ignorance talking. There's nothing wrong with being inquisitive about the deposit but don't think that 500 bucks will disuade the next group from jumping in when you jump out. I am blessed to be able to afford the expensive hobby of lease hunting and I am glad I have this opportunity but I won't complain if that's all I have to put up with.

If they wanted or needed more money they would just increase your lease...................oh wait they are doing that

I don't follow your logic here?? Have you really thought about what you are saying?

1. They are in the timber business first and foremost. The money they recieve for leasing out land for hunting is just an added bonus.

2. If they only cut timber in the off season, do you really think they would have time to to get all of their land cut in 7-8 months? Then you have to subtract the bad weather days that prohibit them from cutting.

3.Who would cut thier timber? I don't know about you, but I have to work 12 months out of the year to make ends meet. I suspect that most loggers and other folks in the timber business would need to work more than 7-8 months out of the year as well.

Your relationship with the timber company doesn't happen in a bubble. There are thousands of acres of other property that they have to deal with. I don't see how any logical thinking person can really come to your conclusion.

As far as the orignal post goes, that does sound unreasonable because most property like ours was already full of trash when we leased it. Not sure how they would determine who's trash was who's??

I am glad that we dropped land from them when we did. We could not get them to work roads after logging operations came through. We could not get them to install a gate onto the property after a gas line was cut through our lease that would allow anyone to ride all over our lease. We installed the gate ourselves and then they got upset when we took it down.

This type of thing is just another way for them to put money in their pocket like they are not getting enough of it already by jacking up lease prices every year and then killing you a your 3 year renewal to the tune of at least 15%.

It's a pain to us hunters, but they have to allow for all outgoing expenses when running a business...but I wonder how often they've paid someone to clean up?!?
Sounds like an interest free loan....and if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck....

There are tons of things that determine when and where they cut. They make way more money off timber than they do off hunting leases. I doubt they will do any "walk thru" before or after we lease or renew a lease. It's what they are calling a deterrent against trashy camp sites and littering. . I personally saw them hire a contractor come on a lease next to us and clean up a nasty campsite left by irresponsible hunters. Now good men like PCP suffer the consequences of others crap!!!

. Westervelt hasn't done anything that was not professional. Realistically we just get what we get. Our only option is to let their land go. And if we do that all of our work and management efforts can go down the drain instantly. And they know that. We have multiple land companies and Westervelt is the most expensive and the roads are the worst. Not throwing them under the bus just stating facts!!!

It's totally unrealistic to expect them to cut outside of season. They could let a potential lease candidate know their timber plans before they lease.
PCP I hope they work with u on it but ur choice of words about them were spot on!!

It's timber business and we jus get what we get. Regardless of what they say I don't think they do much of anything to "improve" the habitat. They jus simply try to find things "good" to try to "sell us" on their habitat improvements.

Exactly.....

The whole 'biologist' angle is window-dressing to make their leases APPEAR more attractive!

They can call it a deterrent and it actually be a cash flow producer but either way they got us!!

I lease from a timber company that don charge for campsite,food plots,clean up fees or have any per hidden charges.I pay my money per acre that I agreed upon and that's it.I talk with the lease manager a god but and they actually try and work with you on things like roads best they can.We have a creek that blowed out and now its a hole bout 5 feet deep and bout 10 feet wide.I asked them bout it last year and they brought equipment and fixed all the roads up to the blowout.Theres 2 ways in and you don't have to go across the blowout to get to the other side of the property so he said its just not feasible for them to spend the money it'll cost to fix it when they can get to the other parts of the property without fixing it.I told him I understood and appreciated fixing the parts they fixed.I don't have a bad word to say about RMS and I'm hoping they don't get on the bandwagon with Westervelt and start chargin for everything.

bonus is just that..its a bonus.it aint free and you dont shucks on people paying you money no matter if its there bread winner or chump change.id rather go hunt public land or get a new hobby than 9000 dollars for 700 acres to be treated like my money was just a "bonus"

Westervelt has granted me a waiver! The area manager responded to my email with a nice note and said he could grant waivers on small tracts like mine. So if anyone else gets a letter, ask for a waiver and you might get it.

Good hunting to all.

Good Lord, nearly $13 per acre. Is that the rate for Westervelt land?

That is on the 'low' side for a Westervelt lease.

Dang!

The company I lease from is a "Timber" company. We are allowed with limits on plots, which is enough. If we go over that, we pay $100 per acre extra per year.

Biologist? Never been offered.

They don't fix the roads either...unless they are cutting.

However, they are great to lease from and are thankful someone is taking care of their property and helping pay the taxes. They have an open door policy which means if there is any problems, I just walk in and we talk. Can be just questions about things also. Did it just the other day.

IF some of these companies are supplying biologist and fixing roads, I'd be wary of complaining to much. Maybe I missed something though. All of those costs fall on us and dozer work can get expensive. Not complaining though. It's clear what is out responsibility and what isn't which makes it much easier.

Glad to hear it. Thanks for update.

You're switching topics, I was addressing the issue you brought up about them cutting timber in "the off season". I was trying to show you that it's not practical for anyone in business to only do business 7-8 months out of the year. The "bonus" analogy was simply meant to show that in relationship to their ovrall income from the harvesting of timber, that it was a small amount. Now if you want to talk about whether the land is over priced, that is a totally different topic all together.

I just leased some land from Rayonier no such litter deposit required.

I am not saying that "timber" companies don't care about hunting leases. Lord knows we do or I would not have a job. I manage 406 clubs with an average of lets say 6 members. Most are more than that. That is 2436 people that are calling and emailing me about the same thing on all 406 clubs. With only so many days to work, I can only put out so many fires. You take 2 months out of that to handle all the leasing/payment processing and it's even less time.

With a limited budged for any company to work on roads, create food plots, control burn and do other management practices folks get pissed at us. If we put all the money back into the land we earned leasing the land, there would be no profit therefore we would no longer lease the land, there would be no reason for it. There has to be profit.

About the logging... Where to start. Loggers BARELY make a living in 12 months now. There is 1/3 of the logging force there was 10 years ago. Enough said.

When it comes to the clubs doing things to manage the property is where it gets tricky. Some things are fine, like planting, sure that's okay but burning would be a huge liability to the company. It would be great if we could do more but most companies don't have the manpower or budget to do it.

Now, third party leasing can be different. I don't have a dog in that fight but to think all companies don't care is incorrect (I don't think it is true about Westervelt either but I don't work there). I hope my lessees don't think that. I know some probably do but I have explained that I too have to answer to someone and a budget and if I don't, well... so long.

[guote]Good Lord, nearly $13 per acre. Is that the rate for Westervelt land? [/quote]
We pay $13.00 an acre in Montgomery County (Bloedel Forrest Inc). It seems like the prices are all over the place. It depends where you are though. It is supply and demand. As long as the timber companies have hunters willing to pay the price they will continue to get it. Their main business in selling trees and yes, leasing the land to hunters is just added income to offset expenses. They are in a very competative market and they need the lease income to offset expenses. For that reason it is in their best interest to have a good relationship with their leasees. On the other hand, they are a business and they have to operate like a business. The stockholders allways come first.