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Freak of Nature
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Originally Posted By: TChunter
The universal checks is about as enforceable as our 3 buck limit.

If Im selling a gun to you and you give me cash noone will ever be able to know if it was pre/post the date of the "check law". Its Stupid.



exactly...stupid law.


I've spent most of the money I've made in my lifetime on hunting and fishing. The rest I just wasted.....

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Well the panic should be over .

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Originally Posted By: bamachem
Be very careful of what you post online or say to people.

All the mental health reporting and studies can be used to declare God-Loving Constitutionalist Gun Owners as Mentally Unstable, which would then deny you the right to own them.

Be very very careful.


Then it's time to purge the ALDeer archives. Seriously.


Without your 2nd amendment rights you have no 1st amendment rights.
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Old Mossy Horns
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Originally Posted By: BhamFred
Originally Posted By: TChunter
The universal checks is about as enforceable as our 3 buck limit.

If Im selling a gun to you and you give me cash noone will ever be able to know if it was pre/post the date of the "check law". Its Stupid.



exactly...stupid law.


Agree, stupid. But it sets the stage for registration required. If that ever happens, that will be a problem on many levels.

John has firearm registered as required to the next law that passes after Universal Background Checks. John private sells to Sam and they avoid the whole background check thing. Sam is CCW and somehow gets stopped for some situation and the gun is run...finds out it is not registered as required to Sam. Sam meets problem. John meets problem.

Or various other scenarios. I don't like it. This is a states rights issue anyway. Lib states will increase restrictions like NY. Conserv states hopefully will not.


"The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever." Isaiah 40:8

"Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt.ďż˝ Samuel Adams
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Old Mossy Horns
Old Mossy Horns
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Originally Posted By: TChunter
The universal checks is about as enforceable as our 3 buck limit.

If Im selling a gun to you and you give me cash noone will ever be able to know if it was pre/post the date of the "check law". Its Stupid.


Wrong.

This is how I think they'll structure it. Wheter it passes or not is another story.

Every gun buyer must pass a background check completed by a FFL before taking possession of the weapon. Immediate family are excluded from this.

An "updated" Form 4473 will be issued to be used. On it, the FFL will select if this is a commercial transfer or a private transfer. It will include the private seller information on the form as a requirement. It will also have the Make/Model/Serial of the weapon to be entered onto the form and given to the NCIS official before approval is given.

A database will be set up and managed to contain all legal transactions of guns. BATFE can trace commercial or interstate transactions now, but must visit each FFL and go through their log book to do so to find the name/DL/DOB of the seller and buyer. This will now be stored on a database server for easier access.

When they perform a background check, they will run the gun info through the database and compare the ownership info to the current seller info. IF they do not match, then the sale is put on a temporary hold. An ATF agent will then follow up with the seller to investigate the reason as to why the names don't match.

At first, there will only be a handfull of sales in the database, but as time passes, guns get bought and sold, and the list will grow. In 20-30 years, 95% of all guns will be de-facto registered and we will be none the wiser.


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you missed it Chem,
while most is correct dont forget another more important angle is the tax that will be put on the transaction to "cover the cost" of running the check. Tax is paid on running the check, not the sale (they will have another one for that), so they get it either way.
It is ALWAYS about the money.

Last edited by buzzard; 01/16/13 01:27 PM.

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Originally Posted By: JD1212
but it still violates the HIPPA agreement for medical officials to release any of your info to anyone.


How so? There is nothing in there that says they are allowed or required to release any PHI.

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Freak of Nature
Freak of Nature
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I wander how many times this president is going to wipe his butt with the constitution.
We better all fear a president who hands out executive orders like a democrat with an ebt card at kfc.
Just a matter of time before homeland security shows up at your front door.


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Booner
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I get what you are saying Chem and agree in due time that may be the case but as far as in the immediate future I dont see private sellers abiding by it. Not unless there are some pretty steep penalties (fines, jail time, etc..)


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Booner
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Originally Posted By: leroycnbucks
like a democrat with an ebt card at kfc.


Because THATS what we have running our country. Its just our country thats the KFC and his ebt card is our pockets.

Last edited by TChunter; 01/16/13 01:34 PM.

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Old Mossy Horns
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The following is a transcript of Vice President Biden's and President Obama's remarks on gun violence Wednesday.

BIDEN: Before -- before I begin today, let me say to the families of the innocents who were murdered 33 days ago, our heart -- our heart goes out to you. And you show incredible courage -- incredible courage being here. And the president and I are going to do everything in our power to honor the memory of your children and your wives with -- with the work we take up here today.

It's been 33 days since the nation's heart was broken by the horrific, senseless violence that took place at Sandy Hook Elementary School. Twenty -- twenty -- beautiful first-graders gunned down in a place that's supposed to be their second sanctuary.

As the president knows, I've worked in this field a long time in the United States Senate, having chaired a committee that had jurisdiction over these issues of guns and crime, and having drafted the first gun violence legislation -- the last gun violence legislation, I should say. And I have no illusions about we're up against -- what we're up against, or how hard the task is in front of us. But I also have never seen the nation's conscience so shaken by what happened at Sandy Hook.

The world has changed, and it's demanding action. It's in this context that the president asked me to put together, along with cabinet members, a set of recommendations about how we should proceed to meet that moral obligation we have. And toward that end, the cabinet members and I sat down with 229 groups -- not just individuals -- representing groups, 229 groups, from law enforcement agencies to public health officials to gun officials to gun advocacy groups, to -- to sportsmen and hunters and religious leaders. And I've spoken with members of Congress on both sides of the aisle, had extensive conversations with mayors and governors and county officials.

And the recommendations we provided to the president on Monday call for executive actions he could sign, legislation he could call for, and long-term research that should be undertaken. They're based on the emerging consensus we heard from all the groups with whom we spoke, including some of you who are victims of this god-awful occurrence, ways to keep guns out of the wrong hands, as well as ways to take comprehensive action to prevent violence in the first place.

We should do as much as we can as quickly as we can, and we cannot let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Some of what you will hear from the president will happen immediately. Some will take some time. But we have begun and we are starting here today and we're resolved to continue this fight.

During the meetings that we held, we met with a young man who's here today. I think Colin Goddard is here. Where are you, Colin? Colin was one of the survivors of the Virginia Tech massacre. He was in the classroom. He calls himself one of the lucky seven. And he'll tell you, he was shot four times on that day, and he has three bullets that are still inside him.
And when I asked Colin about what he thought we should be doing, he said that -- he said, ``I'm not here because of what happened to me. I'm here because of what happened to me keeps happening to other people, and we have to do something about it.''

Colin, we will. Colin, I promise you, we will. This is our intention. We must do what we can now. And there's no person who is more committed to acting on this moral obligation we have than the president of the United States of America.
Ladies and gentlemen, President Barack Obama.

OBAMA: Thank you, everybody. Please -- please have a seat.

Good afternoon, everybody. Let me begin by thanking our vice president, Joe Biden, for your dedication, Joe, to this issue, for bringing so many different voices to the table, because while reducing gun violence is a complicated challenge, protecting our children from harm shouldn't be a divisive one.

Now, over the month since the tragedy in Newtown, we've heard from so many. And obviously, none have affected us more than the families of those gorgeous children and their teachers and guardians who were lost. And so we're grateful to all of you for taking the time to be here and recognizing that we honor their memories in part by doing everything we can to prevent this from happening again.

But we also heard from some unexpected people, in particular I started getting a lot of letters from kids. Four of them are here today, Grant Fritz, Julia Stokes, Hinna Zeha, and Taejah Goode. They're pretty representative of some of the messages I got. These are some pretty smart letters from some pretty smart young people. Hinna, a third-grader -- you can go ahead and wave Hinna, that's you. Hinna wrote, ``I feel terrible for the parents who lost their children. I love my country, and I want everybody to be happy, and safe.''

And then Grant, go ahead and wave Grant, Grant said, ``I think there should be some changes. We should learn from what happened at Sandy Hook. I feel really bad.'' And then Julia said -- Julia, where are you? There you go. ``I'm not scared for my safety, I'm scared for others. I have four brothers and sisters, and I know I would not be able to bear the thought of losing any of them.'' And these are our kids. This is what they're thinking about.

And so what we should be thinking about, is our responsibility to care for them, and shield them from harm, and give them the tools they need to grow up, and do everything that they're capable of doing. Not just to pursue their own dreams, but to help build this country. This is our first task as a society, keeping our children safe. This is how we will be judged. And their voices should compel us to change.

And that's why last month, I asked Joe to lead an effort, along with members of my cabinet, to come up with some concrete steps we can take right now to keep our children safe, to help prevent mass shootings, to reduce the broader epidemic of gun violence in this country.

And we can't put this off any longer.

Just last Thursday, as TV networks were covering one of Joe's meetings on this topic, news broke of another school shooting, this one in California. In the month since 20 precious children and six brave adults were violently taken from us at Sandy Hook Elementary, more than 900 of our fellow Americans have reportedly died at the end of a gun -- 900 in the past month.

And every day we wait the number will keep growing.

So I'm putting forward a specific set of proposals based on the work of Joe's task force. And in the days ahead I intend to use whatever weight this office holds to make them a reality.

Because while there is no law or set of laws that can prevent every senseless act of violence completely, no piece of legislation that will prevent every tragedy, every act of evil, if there's even one thing we can do to reduce this violence, if there's even one life that can be saved, then we've got an obligation to try.

And I'm gonna do my part. As soon as I'm finished speaking here I will sit at that desk and I will sign a directive giving law enforcement, schools, mental health professionals and the public health community some of the tools they need to help reduce gun violence.

We will make it easier to keep guns out of the hands of criminals by strengthening the background check system. We will help schools hire more resource officers if they want them, and develop emergency preparedness plans. We will make sure mental health professionals know their options for reporting threats of violence, even as we acknowledge that someone with a mental illness is far more likely to be a victim of violent crime than the perpetrator.

And while year after year, those who oppose even modest gun safety measures have threatened to de-fund scientific or medical research into the causes of gun violence, I will direct the Centers for Disease Control to go ahead and study the best ways to reduce it. And Congress should fund research into the effects that violent video games have on young minds.

We don't benefit from ignorance. We don't benefit from not knowing the science of this epidemic of violence.

These are a few of the 23 executive actions that I'm announcing today, but as important as these steps are, they are in no way a substitute for action from members of Congress. To make a real and lasting difference, Congress, too, must act, and Congress must act soon. And I'm calling on Congress to pass some very specific proposals right away. First, it's time for Congress to require a universal background check for anyone trying to buy a gun.

The law already requires licensed gun dealers to run background checks, and over the last 14 years that's kept 1.5 million of the wrong people from getting their hands on a gun.

But it's hard to enforce that law, when as many as 40 percent of all gun purchases are conducted without a background check. That's not safe. That's not smart. That's not fair to responsible gun buyers or sellers.

If you want to buy a gun, whether it's from a licensed dealer, or a private seller, you should at least have to show you are not a felon or somebody legally prohibited from buying one. This is common sense. And an overwhelming majority of Americans agree with us on the need for universal background checks, including more than 70 percent of the National Rifle Association's members according to one survey. So there's no reason we can't do this.

Second, Congress should restore a ban on military-style assault weapons, and a 10 round limit for magazines.

The type of assault rifle used in Aurora, for example, when paired with high capacity magazines has one purpose: to pump out as many bullets as possible as quickly as possible, to do as much damage using bullets often designed to inflict maximum damage. And that's what allowed the gunman in Aurora to shoot 70 people, 70 people, killing 12. In a matter of minutes. Weapons designed for the theater of war have no place in a movie theater. A majority of Americans agree with us on this. And, by the way, so did Ronald Reagan, one of the staunchest defenders of the Second Amendment, who wrote to
Congress in 1994, urging them -- this is Ronald Reagan speaking -- urging them to listen to the American public and to the law enforcement community and support a ban on the further manufacture of military-style assault weapons.

And, finally, Congress needs to help, rather than hinder, law enforcement as it does its job. We should get tougher on people who buy guns with the expressed purpose of turning around and selling them to criminals. And we should severely punish anybody who helps them do this.

Since Congress hasn't confirmed a director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms in six years, they should confirm Todd Jones, who will be -- who has been acting and I will be nominating for the post.

And at a time when budget cuts are forcing many communities to reduce their police force, we should put more cops back on the job and back on our streets.

Now, let me be absolutely clear: Like most Americans, I believe the Second Amendment guarantees an individual right to bear arms. I respect our strong tradition of gun ownership and the rights of hunters and sportsmen. There are millions of responsible, law-abiding gun owners in America who cherish their right to bear arms for hunting or sport or protection or collection.

I also believe most gun owners agree that we can respect the Second Amendment while keeping an irresponsible, law-breaking few from inflicting harm on a massive scale. I believe most of them agree that if America worked harder to keep guns out of the hands of dangerous people, there would be fewer atrocities like the one that occurred in Newtown.

That's what these reforms are designed to do. They're commonsense measures. They have the support of the majority of the American people.

And yet that doesn't mean any of this is going to be easy to enact or implement. If it were, we'd already have universal background checks. The ban on assault weapons and high-capacity magazines never would have been allowed to expire. More of our fellow Americans might still be alive, celebrating birthdays and anniversaries and graduations.

This will be difficult. There will be pundits and politicians and special interest lobbyists publicly warning of a tyrannical all- out assault on liberty, not because that's true, but because they want to gin up fear or higher ratings or revenue for themselves. And behind the scenes, they'll do everything they can to block any commonsense reform and make sure nothing changes whatsoever.

The only way we will be able to change is if their audience, their constituents, their membership says this time must be different, that this time we must do something to protect our communities and our kids.

I will put everything I've got into this -- and so will Joe -- but I tell you, the only way we can change is if the American people demand it. And by the way, that doesn't just mean from certain parts of the country. We're going to need voices in those areas and those congressional districts where the tradition of gun ownership is strong to speak up and to say this is important. It can't just be the usual suspects. We have to examine ourselves in our hearts, and ask yourselves what is important? This will not happen, unless the American people demand it. If parents and teachers, police officers, and pastors, if hunters and sportsman, if responsible gun owners, if Americans of every background stand up and say, enough. We've suffered too much pain, and care too much about our children to allow this to continue, then change will -- change will come.

That's what it's going to take. You know, in the letter that Julia wrote me, she said ``I know that laws have to be passed by Congress, but I beg you to try very hard.''

Julia, I will try very hard. But she's right. The most important changes we can make, depend on congressional action. They need to bring these proposals up for a vote, and the American people need to make sure that they do. Get them on record. Ask your member of Congress if they support universal background checks to keep guns out of the wrong hands. Ask them if they support renewing a ban on military-style assault weapons and high-capacity magazines.

And if they say no, ask them why not? Ask them what's more important? Doing whatever it takes to get a -- an A grade from the gun lobby that funds their campaigns? Or, giving parents some piece of mind when they drop their child off to first grade?
This is the land of the free, and it always will be. As Americans we are endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable rights that no man or government can take away from us. But we've also long recognized, as our founders recognized, that with rights come responsibilities.

Along with our freedom to live our lives as we will comes an obligation to allow others to do the same. We don't live in isolation. We live in a society, a government for and by the people. We are responsible for each other.

We have the right to worship freely and safely; that right was denied to Sikhs in Oak Creek, Wisconsin. The right to assemble peacefully; that right was denied shoppers in Placimus, Oregon, and moviegoers in Aurora, Colorado.

That most fundamental set of rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, fundamental rights that were denied to college students at Virginia Tech and high school students at Columbine and elementary school students in Newtown; and kids on street corners in Chicago on too frequent basis to tolerate; and all the families who never imagined they'd lose a loved one to -- to a bullet, those rights are at stake. We're responsible.

You know, when I visited Newtown last month I spent some private time with many of the families who'd lost their children that day. And one was the family of Grace McDonnell. Grace's parents are here. Grace was seven years old when she was struck down, just a gorgeous, caring, joyful little girl. I'm told she loved pink. She loved the beach. She dreamed of becoming a painter.

And so just before I left, Chris, her father, gave me one of her paintings. And I hung it in my private study just off the Oval Office. And every time I look at that painting, I think about Grace, and I think about the life that she lived and the life that lay ahead of her. And most of all, I think about how when it comes to protecting the most vulnerable among us, we must act now, for Grace, for the 25 other innocent children and devoted educators who had so much left to give; for the men and women in big cities and small towns who fall victims to senseless violence each and every day; for all the Americans who are counting on us to keep them safe from harm.

Let's do the right thing. Let's do the right thing for them and for this country that we love so much.

Thank you. Let's sign these orders.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/01/16/transcript-obama-remarks-on-gun-violence/#ixzz2IAKLl5hM


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Freak of Nature
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Originally Posted By: TChunter
Originally Posted By: leroycnbucks
like a democrat with an ebt card at kfc.


Because THATS what we have running our country. Its just our country thats the KFC and his ebt card is our pockets.


You got that right.
Original recipe and extra crispy. laugh


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Freak of Nature
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Do NOT be lulled into a false sense of security. I guarantee that the libs are burning up the congressional phones right now...do your part!


"I'm not near as critical about how big they are as I once was. Smiles are more important now! We will grow more deer."
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Old Mossy Horns
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NRA Statement in Response to President
Obama's Gun Control Proposals




Fairfax, Va. – Throughout its history, the National Rifle Association has led efforts to promote safety and responsible gun ownership. Keeping our children and society safe remains our top priority.

The NRA will continue to focus on keeping our children safe and securing our schools, fixing our broken mental health system, and prosecuting violent criminals to the fullest extent of the law. We look forward to working with Congress on a bi-partisan basis to find real solutions to protecting America’s most valuable asset – our children.

Attacking firearms and ignoring children is not a solution to the crisis we face as a nation. Only honest, law-abiding gun owners will be affected and our children will remain vulnerable to the inevitability of more tragedy.


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I am Cornholio
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Originally Posted By: bamachem

NRA Statement in Response to President
Obama's Gun Control Proposals




Fairfax, Va. – Throughout its history, the National Rifle Association has led efforts to promote safety and responsible gun ownership. Keeping our children and society safe remains our top priority.

The NRA will continue to focus on keeping our children safe and securing our schools, fixing our broken mental health system, and prosecuting violent criminals to the fullest extent of the law. We look forward to working with Congress on a bi-partisan basis to find real solutions to protecting America’s most valuable asset – our children.

Attacking firearms and ignoring children is not a solution to the crisis we face as a nation. Only honest, law-abiding gun owners will be affected and our children will remain vulnerable to the inevitability of more tragedy.


The NRA knows it was a dog and pony show and will disapear ( Hell, it probably already has disappeared)


Originally Posted by Patricia Heaton
If you’re a common sense person, you probably don’t feel you have a home in this world right now. If you’re a Christian, you know you were never meant to.


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Old Mossy Horns
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Dealers are already receiving the email from the BATFE in regards to Background Checks for private sales.

That didn't take long...

Here's the letter:


http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2013/0...individuals.pdf

Last edited by bamachem; 01/16/13 03:23 PM.

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GUVNER
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I'd like to see a copy of that email....thankyou laugh wink

Last edited by Skinny; 01/16/13 03:26 PM.

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Originally Posted By: JD1212
but it still violates the HIPPA agreement for medical officials to release any of your info to anyone.


Maybe it is time to change HIPAA then ...


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I wonder what Tupac would say about Obama's Gun Proposal?


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Old Mossy Horns
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Originally Posted By: buck_buster
I wonder what Tupac would say about Obama's Gun Proposal?


You mean Ice-T?


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