Originally Posted by Irishguy
Originally Posted by mathews prostaff
irish ,predestination is Bibical but not in the calvinistic pagan fatalistic sense.

what does the text SAY?

eph 1:4 according as He hath chosen us IN HIM before the foundation of the world that we should be holy and without blame
before Him in love.
v5
having predestined us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself
according to the good pleasure of His will.

in other words God predestined all those who put thier trust in Christ
would be holy and without blame and He chose to predestin all those who put thier trust in Christ to be His children.

v12 that we should be to the praise of His glory who FIRST TRUSTED IN CHRIST.

calvinistic predestination is greek platonic fatalism and is there fore false.

election is always to SERVICE not SALVATION.


Thanks for your response. I'm not really sure how Calvin or paganism is relevant here, so let me be clear that you're saying (interpreting the scripture) that...

1. Some people (were not sure of the percentage) are born into this world that are going to Hell and there's not a damned thing they can do about it.

2. The only choice we (Christians) have is not whether we are going to be saved or not, but whether we are going to serve the Lord or not in some capacity.

Did I interpret your interpretation correctly?

That’s not what I understood him to say. I understood him to say God decided beforehand that anyone who chooses to put their faith in Christ would go to heaven. But we get to make the choice. I think what he is saying is receiving the gift of salvation is not an act that we are predestined to, but the result of us receiving the gift is predetermined.

Is that right Prostaff?