Aldeer.com Forums Alabama Deer Talk Aldeer General Forum Pennsylvania Possum Cops, Smackdown!

Dunno. Maybe it's just me, but wardens should be limited to going on property after a complaint or tip, with a warrant. Public land, so what they want. Or at request of a homeowner for someone poaching.

But that's just me. They aren't special and should have no special rights whatsoever. For that matter, they should be rolled into county law enforcement and not even have game wardens. Never should have existed in the first place.

The crime here is they got 50 members on 1100 acres.

GWs are special in AL as they can search anything you have that may conceal game, so basically, anything. They don't need a warrant or even Reasonable Suspicion to do this.

As to the complaint or tip, neither of those rise to the level of Probable Cause to get a warrant so basically, GWs in PA won't be able to do their jobs, not very effectively anyways. This is not a decision for those of us that hunt legally and think everyone should hunt legally can like.

Dance move like Fred Astaire.
Here are the 4 questions:

1. Let's change one word in this question and see how it works...................
How can a GW get Probable Cause to ever check a House unless they are allowed in it. (there's not a question mark there because I simply copied and pasted your remark then replaced dove field with house. You didn't use a question mark so that one is on you.

2. Now, can an officer enter a house to get probable cause and in turn obtain a warrant to search it? If the answer is no, then the same should apply to a privately owned field.

3.So what you are saying is, with Articulable Reasonable Belief, the officer would not need a warrant, only the belief that a crime "may" be getting committed??? (multiple question marks)

4.Follow up to the previous question. If so, is the act of hunting itself enough to say a crime "may" be committed?

Three of these questions are yes or no questions so Terry v Ohio is not the correct answer.

Well yeh but it is PA, they dont have many huntable acres to work with anymore. Too many damn people.
But this case was brought about because those two clubs 5500 acres and 131 members were sick and tired of having a game warden up in their business every day of the week. They were being droned, camera's were put out to spy on the club members, and they were walked up on almost every day of season. It was basically constant harassment so they brought about the case.
If ya'll want ya'll can read the 83 page official court opinion here. https://ij.org/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/PA-Open-Fields-SC-Majority-Opinion.pdf

1100 acres with 50 members, 4000 acres with 81 members, no thanks. Need to hunt in a concrete bunker

Doesn’t matter what hunters want. The precedent was set decades ago that due to the nature of wildlife infractions, Game Wardens had every legal authority to be on lands where game is being hunted using the Open Fields Doctrine. Period. It’s the ONLY way they can effectively do their jobs. It seems sportsmen of today are so far removed from the Public Trust Doctrine that nobody has a clue what it means. I bet if I polled this very group to define what that means, most of you couldn’t. We are one generation away from complete privatization of wildlife resources in this country, which is going to be an absolute disaster. Do a little research. Had y’all rather hunt like Europe, or like the greatest country on earth, the USA? If things don’t change, we are headed to dark territory regarding hunting. We have the greatest sustainable conservation story in the entire world, and it’s unraveling before our very eyes.

I never advocated for slipping. If you want to go back years on here when the Open Fields Doctrine (which is still the law in Alabama, btw) came up, I've aways said I'm not a great fan, and have advocated for an Articulable Reasonable Suspicion standard. Some of you guys have no idea what it takes to get Search Warrant. Despite what some apparently think, LE can't just pull them out of their asses. Probable Cause is a tough standard to meet.

The two words I'd like to see are reasonable and prudent. If those two are met then yes warrants should be issued if not then no warrant. Course I never went to law school and only scoped one game warden that time.

I am not a lawyer or a GW but in my mind this would be easy to overcome. If you don’t want me on your private property checking licenses, bag limits, plugs, etc. i would set up on public property on the road coming out and check everyone as they come out. I would rather have them checking on the fly than to sit in a line for a checkpoint coming out.

The 2 words that I put in bold is where most of us lose it for those wearing badges. PUBLIC TRUST. The public has been abused by badge wearing storm troopers to the point that most of us want them to stay the hell away from us and our property UNLESS they have a warrant. It's NOT the fault of the public that these feelings are so prevalent. And of course a cop is gonna support what cops have always done. Yes, Jawbone, that last sentence was for you.

I’d file it under careful what you wish for

Wasn’t it about a hundred years ago market hunting just about wiped out many game animals and sportsmen asked for regulations and enforcement. Passenger pigeon along with a few others were obliterated.

What we face these days is hiring being a status symbol especially ducks and turkeys. Even dove hunting has become more than opening day. I’m glad I grew up and hunted what I did and saw things that many will never see in the duck world.

In my opinion open field is not your castle and wildlife is not owned by the landowners. Wildlife is becoming a commodity and livestock will ruin opportunities for many as cost will become increasingly difficult to afford. Then again every aspect of playing has become stupidly priced. Good news is shows just how well off we are versus years ago.

I’ve always struggled with open field doctrine and the fourth amendment

Oh, I readily admit that a few abusers made it hard on everyone. The problem is that those are the only ones people like you read and hear about, while I spent every working day, and then some, dealing with the great LE officers that do their jobs with integrity. Those vastly outnumber the problem ones. It should be noted I know more about the problem ones than you or the general public will ever know, as I did Internal Affairs investigations and even sent a couple to prison and made even had a few more fired never to be APOSTC certified in AL again. Still even when I saw the worst I know the good far, far outnumber the bad. Don't throw the babies out with the bathwater like the Democrats want to do. Like Carter said above, be careful what you wish for.

One of the issues with game wardens using open fields is that the “crimes” they are dealing with aren’t what real cops deal with, most of the time. I can see entering a property under open fields if life and limb are at stake. I can’t see it to write a bunch of BS tickets for illegal baiting (ie, you didn’t pay the state), killing a doe out of season, one squirrel over the limit, etc. I sincerely hope they get reined in here in Alabama.

I don't think it would affect the deer population much if it happened in Alabama. Between lessors allowing access, public land, legalized baiting, and the bulk of poaching occurring on others property or in such a way that they're still able to be caught, I don't see there being much change. For the ones worried about people poaching their own land and not leaving it, they're already hard to catch from my understanding. I could see turkey baiters being harder to catch though.

FYI, that is already covered as an exception to a Search Warrant requirement as an exigent circumstance so the Open Fields Doctrine exception does not even come into play.

Turkeys and migratory birds are my biggest concern. Deer will be fine.

I can see that being more problematic.

Gonna be funny when guys go to complaining their turkeys got poached. Turkeys and waterfowl gonna be baited good if and when thsi happens

Who you gonna call