Aldeer.com Forums Alabama Deer Talk Serious Deer Talk Forum More on old doe behavior…….

Wait for it......wait for it.......









The ones that arent using your food plots........Its really not that complicated......Remember what I said in the very beginning of this discussion??....Leave your food plots alone and shoot a small stray doe around the edges of the property away from the fields that isnt runninng in a big group.....The dominant groups will claim the plots........and that's only IF you need to shoot does or want one for meat

I can agree with that logic. I hope you were sitting down when you just read that.
I'll bet you already know what my next question is.
Let's consider a year like this previous one where the deer stick to the woods because of a large mast crop. How would you discern the dominant groups from the inferior groups in that scenario? By the way, I don't like the old big does to eat anyhow. They are as tough as an older buck most of the time. I prefer the young tender ones.

Just shoot a little doe that isnt in a big group and hope for the best…..Maybe reduce the total number you shoot on a year like that. There’s not gonna be a perfect system but I can tell what the worst thing to do would be……and that would be to constantly target the biggest doe on all your plots every season

You have way too much free time to think up a load of BS like this. ^^^^^

Damn,with all respect to Matt and other biologist. Didn't know you had to give a deer a interview before shooting damn thing.

This is the stuff that weed gets blamed on and gets a bad name. 😂😂

CNC…”Momma Does are like Momma Humans”

I’ve seen does act the way you describe CNC. But I’ve also seen a 2 acre plot with 50 does on it and no fighting over it.

CNC, did it say where this study was done? Was it done in an area where 130lb was a common weight in 4+ year old does?

What I read there basically says both numbers, doe weight and antler scores, have to do with nutrition, not age. So if you took one of the study sites in the Midwest, killed all the does 3 and older to keep the average body weight down, the bucks score wouldn’t drop since the nutrition wouldn’t change. So that tells me that increasing doe weight by adjusting the age structure wouldn’t affect the buck score number here in Alabama. It would affect it though if you adjusted the doe weight by nutrition.

Correct?

Yes. In areas with higher average body weights antler scores are, on average, higher as well. It has to do with habitat quality, not older does giving birth to bucks that develop into higher scoring bucks.

What happened to the little thing called epigenetics?

Correct…….We’re not talking about taking an area with 110 lbs does and simply letting them get older……We’re talking about taking those 110 lb does introducing better nutrition and creating 130+ lb does in the future generations…..which give birth to buck offspring with better potential……There was more about age but I’m not gonna rehash it all

To say it simply……if you are going to raise the nutritional plane on your property WAY above everyone else around you……then you need to shut down immigration of does which will be a constant pressure trying to get into the better resources……All replacement needs to come from reproduction of resident does……If you go in and have a ho down throw down and cap 30-40 of the most dominant old does and it opens up the door for immigrant does…..then you’re replacing your superior doe lines with lesser ones that have to start the epigenetic process over……However you want to do it immigration of these lesser does needs to be shut down and not allowed to be replacements…..I offered my suggestion of how to accomplish that

I don’t understand where the confusion is. What about epigenetics? I understand the concept of epigenetics and I’ve seen it play out over and over again. The MSU study was one of the catalyst and I was there when that data was collected and compiled. I worked for Demariais and Strickland at the deer research facility when those studies began.

I don’t understand your argument. Higher antler scores and higher body weights have a correlation because deer growing up in better habitat produce healthier fawns. It has nothing to do with the age of the doe birthing the fawn. It’s her physical condition that drives the health of her offspring for the remainder of their lives. These genetics triggers for larger body mass and higher average antler scores are triggered when higher quality nutrition is provided, and it can improve each generation.

You’re assuming does travel great distances to find better resources. Studies have concluded does are extremely loyal to their home ranges regardless of habitat quality. Some will certainly begin to use areas of higher quality habitat if it’s already within or very close to their existing home range. They will shift usage depending on habitat, but it’s not like landowners with intensive management are drawing deer in from 6 miles away. Bucks? Yes, due to natural dispersal. Does? Not quite as often.

I have no idea how you take the idea of immigration from neighboring properties and turn that into 6 mile dispersals…...That's not even remotely what was said

Matt, don’t bust his doe bubble.

I got a grand idea…..Why don’t you just stick to talking about the topic instead of talking so much about me…..I assure you that none of you are gonna bust any of my bubbles.