Aldeer.com Forums Alabama Deer Talk Serious Deer Talk Forum More on old doe behavior…….

So something I’ve noticed over the years of watching my old field was that when there was some old does in there with their doe groups…..the number of does using my plot would cap out……New ones may show up but the old does wouldn’t tolerate it for long and they’d aggressively run any additional ones off…..Its my understanding that they do this so as to conserve that top shelf food resource for themselves…….

So the question is then……Does taking out the old doe and leaving nothing but younger females open the door for the best resources to be exploited due to the lack of a dominance structure??

Based on what you're asking, it sounds like taking out the old matriarch is a good thing.

How so?

More of the herd can utilize the best available resources.

As long as resources are sufficient, the herd will benefit.

I’m taking out that long nose bitty every time. She’s smart and will educate others. Also more bang for your buck at the Processer, 130lb doe will feed a feller for a little while. Them kind that pick a mouth full of grass and look around chewing on it for 5 minutes before putting there head back down. I like to shoot em.

Analysis paralysis

Don’t know but I like it when they get up on their hind legs and pummel each other.

imo ,,,,a mouth is a mouth . they all eat up stuff so i aint picky when it comes to killing does . if limit is 2 a day i pop the little one thats with her

Old Matriarchs fill the freezer at my place

The angel on my left shoulder is hollering for me to take the high road while the devil on my right keeps saying that it would be far more entertaining not to…..Hmmmm…..who to listen to??

Who do you normally listen to ?

I try hard to listen to the angel but that devil just keeps standing there with a half-cocked Judy whispering…… “Sling it!!!!".....

I know that feeling bruh.

If the deer that you are watching are uneasy and nervous, you are just in the wrong place or the wind is swirling around and they are picking up your smell.

Some are just wired that way.

I gotta disagree Frankie.......all mouths are not the same......The mouth of an old doe will defend and protect resources from being exploited.....a young one will not......Is that not correct??......Are old does not far more aggressive and protective??

Gonna leave this right here.........

"This year an in-depth study published by Mark Turner, Dr. Craig Harper, Dr. Bronson Strickland, Dr. Marcus Lashley, Dr. Mark Wilber and William McKinley revealed break through research correlating doe weight to antler size. As doe weight increases, so does inches of antler."

https://southeastwhitetail.com/2024/07/28/qdm-data-within-jawbones/

One more.........

https://southeastwhitetail.com/2024/08/04/qdm-which-doe-should-you-shoot/

"By consistently removing the oldest females you’ll create an age structure of 1-3 years. Obviously, average body weight harvests will decrease. With that, antler potential for fawn bucks will be limited as it’s set during gestation. This research was outlined in my last article QDM: Data within Jawbones. "

In that last article it talked about an older age structure having higher reproductive success….It basically talks about it in the context of taking them out to cut down on reproduction if you have too many deer…….However, let me present it in a different context…..We’re in conundrum here in Alabama where most places are suffering from not having enough bucks……If everyone takes out the old does and it cuts down on reproductive success then that also means we’re cutting down on buck production rates in the process……Half of that reproduction that doesn’t happen is a buck that doesn’t get produced

Wouldn’t it make more sense to allow those old does to successfully have those twins and triplets and then just shoot the ones that arent bucks when they get to be old enough to tell them apart??

Alabama's problem is that our rut extends for 2,3, to even 4 months in some areas. Why? Because we do not keep enough bucks in our herd to be able to breed all of the available does or in most cases, even half of them, during their first cycle. Why, because Alabama allows too many bucks to be killed, every single year and has since deer hunting in AL was allowed. The other issue is rut stress, which is really bad on the bucks that are having to do all that chasing a breeding. We lose a ton of bucks to that as they simply run themselves to death. I'd venture to say that young bucks 1-2 yr olds are forced to do 70+ percent of the breeding in Alabama. That is not the way it should be. Why does that happen? Because in AL our herd structure is completely screwed up. Too many does, not enough bucks, and screwed up age structures in both, but most especially in the buck age structure. Why? Because living to age 3 is a major accomplishment for any Alabama buck sporting a rack with forks on it.