Aldeer.com Forums Alabama Deer Talk ALTurkey Talk -- Beards and Spurs The Turkey Numbers '26

Thanks for trying to come up with something!

Perry county is very diverse. On the south end where I grew up the Cahaba River is the true dividing line that starts the Blackbelt. Get to the west side of the river and you are immediately in prairie type soils and open land. The east side is rolling hills and hardly any different than Bibb co. Of course, the county line is completely man-made and has nothing to do with turkeys except for GC. I don't know what it's been like across the river; I'm just talking about my little slice of the world when I talk about turkey stability, and our numbers today are still very similar to 1970.

The catfish industry is something I used to know a little about long ago. My dad was one of the first producers and I fed my share of fish. Those ponds are far away from our place, and it was the 80s before there were enough of them to make any possible difference in turkeys 30 miles away. With that said, I'm very, very skeptical that catfish lakes near Greensboro could impact our turkeys. The only birds I ever saw affecting catfish were cormorants. I'm sure eagles get some now, but it's only in the last decade that I've ever seen an eagle at the farm. If they are having a negative impact, shouldn't they have started a decline in the turkey population when they appeared? That certainly hasn't happened.

I think it's just normal to have stable turkey populations in good habitat. When landowners manage for turkeys, you have turkeys. Even when nobody tries to manage for them, when the land has enough diversity of habitat, you still have turkeys so long as they are protected from poaching and such. It's normal for the population to have peaks and valleys due to weather, and changing land use has certainly been bad for turkeys in many areas.

Just my thoughts, a good day to all.

I bet there’s guys in Elmore Co too that just don’t see how coyote activity in Hurtsboro is impacting them…….One of the biggest downfalls in our group thinking in my opinion is that we think too small and see everything only as it happens “just in my little slice of the world”…..Predator populations like eagles and coyotes don’t live inside of that sized box though…….The larger populations exist at a landscape scale……Just think about what the landscape looks like to an eagle 1000 ft up in the air…..It gets a lot smaller…….and when the eagle population around the catfish ponds reach its capacity or they need more food……where do the excess go??.....When the rodent boom in the grassland of the plantation belt reaches a coyote threshold …..where do the excess go??......They get pushed outward

PCP……I got a feeling you’re just putting on with some of this.

Eagles have probably only started having a negative impact in the last 10-15 years…….That’s when their populations began to exceed the limits of the food and space resources of the lakes and rivers and the excess were forced to push outward into the dryland searching for new food sources

To add a little more detail to this “theory”……..Part of what has been occurring with the coyote boom and this landscape level movement pattern is most likely revolving around our Feb/March/April burn season in the plantation belt…….If there are excess rodents in those grasslands that arent being eaten by avian predators during the winter then they are getting flushed and scattered with our spring burns…… That’s probably a big part of why there is so much excess hen predation occurring during nesting season right now in the broader area around the plantation belt…….Releasing a bunch of excess rodents in Feb/March/April is like chumming for sharks……There’s probably a lot of social conflict occurring between resident and transient yotes during this period as way more rodents are being released than resident dogs can utilize…..Every late winter transient that passes through during this time is probably trying to take advantage of the excess rodents that have been displaced and the residents are probably having to defend against it…. All of this large scale influx of activity running through that funnel coming and going probably tapers off around May after all of those displaced rodents get eaten or find a new home……The overall yote levels in the plantation belt still remain peaked out though afterwards without much avian competition………That's the theory anyhow

I guess you are implying that there is a contradiction in my statements? If so, you have missed my point; I think I have missed yours too.

The first eagle I ever saw was on the Cahaba in the early 60s. There weren't many then, but now they are common. We were in the catfish business from 1971 until 1999. I never saw an eagle get a catfish from the lake, and I've never seen one get a turkey. They probably do get some, but I doubt it's a number significant enough to matter. Do you have any research that says otherwise?

My main point was that even with all the changes that have taken place from the 60s until now, we've still had about the same number of turkeys year after year, and have killed 3-6 gobblers off the 400 acres nearly every year.

I would still like to hear what you think is happening with the catfish ponds on the other side of the county that's impacting our turkeys? I think we are seeing more eagles because there's simply more of them. They always used up and down the Cahaba, so the catfish ponds didn't draw them to the area. I don't think cormorants bother turkeys, and they were the only bird I ever knew of impacting the catfish industry. Is there some other predator involved? Is there any evidence that eagles have become a significant nuisance for the catfish farmers? I haven't heard anyone else mention this, but I have been out of it for 27 years now.

Is there any research showing that prescribed burning is actually a negative for turkey populations, or did you come up with this idea? I haven't seen that anywhere else either. I seldom see a rat escape one of my fires and be flushed out. They usually burn up.

I wonder with all the squirrels because o true acorns if we will have more avians hatch out since there’s a good available food source
Saw a Cooper’s hawk with a king snake this afternoon

I found another article on the 2022-23 avian flu outbreak that’s a pretty good read…….

https://www.allaboutbirds.org/news/antibodies-avian-influenza-raptors-resistance/

Here’s something interesting to consider…..If avian flu was being spread to raptors through preying on “water birds” then which states would you expect to see the biggest impacts??

"Alabama ranks #1 in the United States for freshwater biodiversity and boasts over 132,000 miles of rivers and streams. It also ranks #1 for the most navigable inland waterways in the country, with over 1,400 miles. Known as "America's Amazon," it has more freshwater species than any other state, including mussels, snails, fish, and turtles"

Not real sure how to explain it any differently than I already have PCP but I’ll see if I can come up with a different way…..As far as the burning being bad for turkeys……I’m not really trying to label burning as inherently good or bad…..just pointing out what I think is occurring in the plantation belt as a result of the avian flu outbreak…..It is what it is……I try to simply understand it

There isn't much to explain - just list the predators that the catfish lakes have drawn in that are affecting turkeys on the other side of the county. You have listed eagles; what else you got? Since we both agree that significant eagle numbers is very recent, that can't be the only thing when talking about 60 years of stability.

It’s cicadas

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1BXQz9VYJJ/?mibextid=wwXIfr

Let’s start with the idea that if you hunt in southeast Perry Co then it probably isnt 30 miles to where there are major commercial ponds…




But the other avian predator populations ^^^^^ would have been the other predators before eagles that are attracted to the prey sources available around these commercial pond operations…..The water and the high density of fish are an annual constant as the base chain in the link……

https://www.facebook.com/groups/alabamabirding/posts/1433458340137158/

Really interesting comments starting at about the 32:30 minute mark that is highly relative to what I’ve been saying about the plantation belt……What frustrates me about Dr. Lashley is that the concept he’s talking about with understory density is deeper than the idea of just “fire, fire, fire” and he knows that…….If I was a good artist I’d draw a caricature of him looking ape like and grunting “Fire good!!” for doing such…….

Here’s the way it should be said……….I'll even put it italics to make it sound more important......

“Fire is neither inherently good or bad…..It’s what we use fire to create that is…..”

The way its being presented most of the time is no different than if I said…..”Cow good.....Just get cow on the landscape anyway you can!.....Cow, Cow, Cow!!!!”……..We know that’s not true and it’s the same for fire if you use it to create a sea of tall thick grass.

Take a nap...Dam

I'm NE of your mark, but I will agree that it's more like 20 miles than 30 to the first group of ponds. 30 was just a guess. The oldest of those ponds used to be pay to fish bass/bream lakes and I caught my first bass in it. I must have been about 3, but I still have a vague memory of pulling him out on the bank with a cane pole. Years later they converted those lakes to catfish and then built a bunch more.

Well, thanks for trying to come up with something, but I'm still skeptical that the catfish lakes have much to do with our turkeys. Other than the eagles, there just isn't a predator that they could attract that we haven't had all along. The owls and hawks have been there all my life.

The GC numbers for Perry county show this to be a record season for the county, but it's also been a great season in my specific area. We haven't killed but 3, but the neighbors have already killed their most ever. Good habitat produces turkeys. The predators are always going to get a lot of them, but they don't get them all if you have cover.

Good luck to all who are still hunting!

Speaking of flying predators have any of yall ever seen a baby crow? I never have. All I ever see is grown ones and got to wondering where they nest and they will probably tear up turkey eggs cause they pester the hell out of them. I’ve called plenty of times and here comes a crow or several

Y’all crazy if you think that turkey hunters volunteer info

I've got another theory to add to my other theory....... I think a lot of the transient yote boom coming out of the plantation belt from extra pups is pushing through that funnel on the Tallapoosa and then moving right up the Interstate 65/Coosa River corridor…….Because of the way most resident dogs likely have territorial boundaries laid out along the interstate and the river its creating a landscape level dispersal route running north/south along those structures……Dispersing juveniles would likely suffer high mortality along that route the further they keep pushing toward Birmingham and that’s where you see the excess peter out…..I didn’t draw it in on this one but I think 231 and 331 are probably creating north/south travel routes as well

“The ranges of coyotes don’t overlap much, or not at all. If a coyote ventures into another coyote’s range, fighting occurs. Transient coyotes must stay out of areas marked by scent. Our radio-collar studies showed that these coyote ranges look like puzzle pieces. The transients stay out of areas with a lot of scent. They must snake their way around looking for their own range.”

The other major dispersal route would run up the Tallapoosa corridor.......



This is last years map......You can see that same pattern in red along those dispersal routes.....