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Same principle applies... Jeremiah was an actual person that existed, being formed in the womb. There's also the idea that God may not be speaking literally here as much as communicating the fact that He knew Jeremiah better than himself. God clearly uses exaggeration in Scripture.

Driveby is correct here. I'm just gonna hang out and chill with him...

I reckon im just dumb enough to believe God means exactly what he says. I guess thats where were different. I would not be so bold as to tell God what he really meant. I just trust him and believe him and iguess ill stick with that till i see him.

This is not a gotcha question, it just something I've struggled with for a while. If God says he knew us before we were conceived, does that mean we have free will? Or is everything predetermined? Does he know what we're gonna do and just let us do it knowing what we will do with our free will? I know if a child is supposed to be born, God will make it happen no matter what but at the same time do we have any control over the matter of childbirth? Is it all God's doing or is it our free will? I struggle with the question of birth control. I can see the argument for both sides. It's a great question to be discussed amongst rational people. Pardon my ignorance if there is something blatantly obvious in the Bible or something about this but I look forward to hearing what yall say. I'm all ears.

We definately have free will. God definately knows everything. Both are true.

“Meet all his unconceived children in heaven” - thats the stupidest thing i ever heard Lockjaw

First of all - the road to heaven is mighty narrow - there aint ginna be 800,000,000,000 people there. Aint not telling how hight that number woukd be - pribably 20 times higher than the number i just gave

If i am hearing you right - so if you had controlled sex where you could not get pregnant - that will be in heaven ?? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

OK... Here's my take on it and I am 100% certain of it because I know it in my spirit.

1. We are eternal spirits created by God "in his image" which means we are part of God's collective consciousness.
2. We, or rather our consciousness's, all existed before we were conceived by our parents or born on our birthdate.
3. We are 100% all living in a simulation, because the base reality is our spirits, our consciousness, dwelling with God. That is our natural state. That's the base reality. What we perceive as the reality, this World, is really a trial period, an artificial "reality" created for us by God that we all have to go through.
4. There are two possible outcomes from this trial period, this simulation created by God for us to exist in as humans.
a. We accept God's Grace through Jesus and follow the guidance of the Holy Spirit and we are re-united with God when the trial period is over. Pure Joy.
b. We reject God's Grace and allow ourselves to follow the way of the World and we are eternally separated from God when the trial period is over. Pure terror.

How does that relate to to your question?

It really depends on the type of birth control...

1. If a baby is never conceived then no foul, because that consciousness will just be born in another baby somewhere.
2. If a baby is conceived and then aborted either with a morning after pill or a straight up abortion then we are not following God's law by murdering another human being.
(Notice I used the word "murdering" rather than "killing" in the sentence, because there is a difference.)

So your buddy's logic it incorrect.

It's 5:00am and I ain't even had a few sips off my coffee yet.

Depends on the ethical constrains from which you are raised that control your moral compass:

Where do you draw the line: Can't you find scripture in the bible that says these are all wrong? Which should be illegal?
1) Masterbation
2) Condoms
3) Contraceptives
4) Morning after pill
5) Early abortion
6) Late term abortion
7) Kill people any time you want (Muslims & suicide bombers, Kamakazes WWII, etc)

My opinion (for what that is worth) is that we should put forth an effort/$$$ to find a safe, effective, reversible long(er) term birth control and make it free; to drive down 5 & 6.

That isn't going to happen because politicians use our differing views on 4-6 to generate wealth/power.

I don't think the idea of "un-conceived children" makes any sense.

As for birth control, I'm not a Catholic but the Catholic position is worth considering. There is no Bible verse directly on birth control that I am aware of. But we should ask: what is the purpose of marriage? What is the purpose of sex? What is the purpose of medicine? Do our answers to those questions reflect a Biblical view or a modern view?

The Bible is pretty clear that children are a blessing and lots of children are even more of a blessing. If we are Christians, do our lives suggest that we really believe that?

The demographic cliff should stir us to some introspection. I include myself in that.

As a Catholic, we believe that in the sacrament of Holy Matrimony we come together in union with one another and God with the ability to be co creators of life with Him. We are God's only creations, not even the angels, that have this ability and itnis not to be taken lightly.

Another aspect of this, that we focus on as Catholics, just as much or more so than the technicalities of conception is that fact we should always be open to the gift and blessing of lift as an act of submitting to God's will. If we are trying to control when life is created by artificial means, we are saying or acting as if we are in controll rather than submitting to God's plan.

NAILED it!!!!

Irish, do you believe the ONLY human eternal spirits that exist are the ones that are conceived? If a baby is never conceived then no foul because their eternal spirits never existed anyways?

Man y'all are getting deep and like I said no right or wrong answers from me. But some of your replies are real good. But does that mean you are practicing onanism?

This makes way more sense to me.

The morning after pill does not work that way. It does not terminate an existing pregnancy after fertilization has already taken place.

What the morning after pill does:

1. It prevents or delays the release of an egg from the ovaries, which means there is no egg available for sperm to fertilize

2. It may also inhibit fertilization by affecting the movement of sperm and egg.

Note: The morning after pill is not the same as RU-486.

Justinj I will have to say I don't always agree with some Catholic doctrine but your thread is hard to disprove. I will be honest I have no right to be critical of Catholics beliefs because I don't know enough about it. Since no one answered my question tell them what onanism means. You may be the only one that doesn't have to google it

Life as we know it begins at conception. Therefore there can't be a human containing a consciousness until a baby is conceived.

I guess it was the RU-486 that I must have been thinking about. I always thought that's what everyone called it... The morning after pill.

Kyle's, man I can't tell you how much I appreciate your kind response, and sadly how nervous I was to proclaim my Catholic Faith, as I am well aware of how it percieved by many, but I felt called to do so.

Without googling it, im assuming onanism is a reference to Onan in Genisis and thr spilling of his seed. As a Catholic. We would view "pulling out" as a form of birth control, once again not being open to the possabikty of life and not submitting to God's will. As a Catholic, these are things I've struggled to fully understand and submit to for a long time, but ultimity it is about giving up our idea of control and giving it up fully to Him.

Can't nobody down you here because we are all imperfect people. We used the pill and I will admit it. Before I go any farther though do you believe that Jesus Christs blood shed on the cross is what gets you in Heaven? If you do You got the main thing nailed down. The rest of the stuff we argue about any of us could be wrong unless it is plainly contrary to Scripture