Aldeer.com Forums Alabama Deer Talk Serious Deer Talk Forum The Rut

Alabama probably has one of the most jumbled up ruts in the whole country……For years there’s been debate about how the dynamics function across the landscape and why some folks see the things happening they do…..It turns out that it wasn’t as complex as we thought…..though I still don’t think many understand what’s occurring…..even the experts. I wonder sometimes why we quit with the fetal studies......The more we conduct those the more we continue to learn about the specifics of each area.....Sometimes I think maybe they stopped because they dont want folks to know.....but maybe that's just the conspiracy theorist in me

I disagreed with the lack of data collection. It was actually ramped up prior to the season changes being made statewide, then abruptly halted. There should be continued fetal data taken every year.

Thankfully we live in an area with a rut early enough we can kill a few does in February with fetuses large enough to measure. We get that data every year.

Most years at our place, Jan. 21 is the day that we have killed the most mature deer on our place. According to our records it’s within a few days of the 21st. that we see the most bucks running around. If I only had one hunting trip that I could make it would be Jan 18-25. After the first day or 2 of February our place dries up. Which is crazy because we have some close friends who have property Jackson Alabama and when ours shuts down theirs is just getting hot and heavy. I haven’t hunted February since the 2nd season the days were added.

I may be completely wrong on this but I think what happened was that they sampled enough to where suddenly someone had an ah ha moment and figured out the same thing I have and shut it down before it became apparent to everyone else…..that way only a few could take advantage of the knowledge……You would think after all the debate over the years about “The Alabama Rut” that there would be articles written and information put out explaining what we’ve figured out…..but its nothing but crickets on the subject…..Hmmmmm......typcial Alabama deer management

Why would anyone want to conceal rut information?

What do you think they would have concluded? I’m being genuinely curious as to your thoughts, because I had access to the entirety of the data, and the only thing it showed with consistency was that there are vast acreages in AL with an over harvest of bucks, leading to drawn out breeding dates that could easily be shortened with better herd management. Even in south AL with later breeding times, if second and third estrous cycles were removed from the data set, the majority of breeding takes place in January, not February. That’s not isolated to south AL. It’s also true anywhere there’s several does to bucks in the overall population. That’s why I was so opposed to Feb extension in North AL. It’s one of the worst management decisions deer managers could make. Let’s increase buck harvest, during the recovery period, oh, and add corn to as long as they’ll pay. Compounds the problem. It created a scenario that ensures sex ratios stay skewed heavily toward females. It’s so jacked up. Most states try to limit buck harvest when they’re most vulnerable. We opened the flood gates.

I’d like to remind folks, in case they’ve forgotten, that hunting isn’t supposed to be easy. As a society we have trained ourselves to expect ease, comfort, lack of effort, etc. Maybe we’ve forgotten that things worth having are worth working hard for. By making deer so easy to kill and extending the season so long I think we’ve devalued the resource and ppl take it for granted. I’ve heard it 1 million times, “But our bucks move well in February. The cameras let me know when they’re there so I’m not wasting time hunting when I shouldn’t. Small landowners don’t have a way to attract deer. We have to bait.” All those things are true. Indeed. And I’m a guilty part of the problem! But what have we to gain in any area of life by taking the easiest route? I think we’ve turned sportsmanship into a thing of the past. I know I’m ranting, but it’s all tied up in the reason I think we need good solid reproductive data, and a strong evaluation of what it tells us.

Preach it!!

We have a lot of areas where different doe lineages are either mixed or overlapping……When you have a property that has some does on it that are going into estrous well ahead of the rest of them it creates heavy competition for those does and can create really good rut hunting experiences…..For example, an area where you have Nov does bumping up against an area with Jan does…..There are going to be some properties in the mix who have maybe lets say 80% of their doe population go into estrous in Jan but they will have 20% that pop off hot in Nov and draw in every buck in the neighborhood…..especially the older ones……The more we do fetal studies the more these site specific areas become apparent to everyone……If you understand the concept though you can halfway figure it out on your own through the information we already have…..

I saw a map recently of fetal studies done in Alabama from 2009 to 2015 and there were some close to my lease that were bred on an early February average. Had never seen the map before, but it claimed it was Alabama dnr source. I was a little surprised because I’m in southwest Dale county.

I dont think you can really go by the average on there......its factoring in second cycle does as well so it skews the average date......A primary rut of Jan 19 - Feb 4 could show a Feb 10 average if there were a lot of second cycle does sampled that were bred in March.....Some areas also have early outliers from other lineages that skew what's actually occurring when looking at an average

Sent you a PM Matt

Its amazing what someone can learn just tracking a deer.......

Different variants of whitetail deer, with differing estrous cycles, out of balance herd and buck populations just to name a few of the influencing factors. Fetal studies clear some of that up on a localized basis. Been keeping records on our place in SE Alabama for about 27 years and there is no truly consistent way to pinpoint when the primary rut will occur. Seems to shift by about two weeks year to year. What skews our data is that hunting activity is a low from Thanksgiving through mid-January and then we have folks in camp pretty consistently through the end of the season. More hunters, equal more sightings which equals more buck kills.

We have a good processor and he began to tell us a few years ago that several of the does we had brought in along with does from other locations close by were barren even though they were breeding age. Three to four year old does that had never bred. We attributed that to an out of balance herd. We now begin the season setting a 10-15 doe harvest goal and restrict buck harvest to 4.5 y/o or older. This is the third year we have done that an our doe to buck harvest ratio is 3:1 over the past two years. This year will be a continuation. I do know that last year we saw a huge jump in the amount of scrapes and rubs and a strong underclass of young bucks. We'll see what happens this year but hopefully it is a more pronounced rut. This is on 2,000 contiguous acres with a strong deer population and little pressure on neighboring properties.

My spot in North Alabama is a different story. Rut is pretty consistent with Dec 31 - Jan 4 being the target but its a low population area.

If you remember, the baiting issue was forced by the legislature and the language in the bill specifically prohibited using scientific data and the expertise of the DCNR to halt or alter the baiting issue. Drafted and sponsored by that jacka$$ Tom Whatley from Lee County. I agree with Mbrock that extending the season in North Alabama was a terrible decision.

Arent you in Barbour Co??.....I know the area pretty well......I might be able to help explain some of things happening around you if you dont mind sharing a more specific area of Barbour

Looks like you and I agree on something else. In the area I grew up hunting we have some of the "northern strain" deer lineage from the restocking days and we also have the natives. They are not as spread out on their rut times as the example you have given. The northern strain does will come in about the last week in November and the rest the week before Christmas. I don't need any fetal studies to know this, I just lived there for 30 years and paid attention.

I was up at camp the week after christmas before new years. Bucks were coming to rattling and calling really good. Saw good hard chasing 3 separate hunts; like all out running and does looking like theyre running for their lives. One particular morning,I had 5 solid bucks behind 1 doe. Smallest was probably a 100" 8pt. The next day,another member shot a doe that had twins formed in her already. Conclusion???

That was likely a stray Nov doe that came from your east......You probably have a small percentage of them in your herd......Its very likely that you have 3 distinct doe lineages on y'alls club

If you look at the rut map the state put out that Nov area doesn’t just end right where they drew it……The reality is that it “peters out” as you move west……That what happens when these lineages overlap…..The specific area you’re in Slayinbucks is a Dec corridor that has Jan and Nov on either side overlapping....This occurs all over the state where you have overlapping and mixed herds…..Its almost silly to try and talk about "the rut" in normal context because of how this is occurring for many

I often wonder if any of the Northern deer were transplanted in South Monroe co. We have 2 types of deer on our place. We have bucks that are a little taller but a lot longer and most of those bucks weigh around the 190-210 range. They are a dark grey color. Then we have what I call the normal Alabama buck. Not to tall, easy to hang under the skinning shed and weighs in the 160-190lbs range. I’m not a deer aging expert but I know it’s not different age classes. We have only killed 4 of the larger heavier bucks that I can recall. I killed 3 and all were in that 200-205lb range. The other one was killed by my brother and was 210lbs. They were 3 10pt and a 9pt. They all had little stickers coming off their bases and G3s. We are no longer running cameras so I’m not sure if we have any still roaming around. All 4 of those deer were killed at the beginning of December. I killed 2 of them on December 11 two years in a row back when they’d close the season the first 10days of December.

You can just about hunt the rut year round within a 50 mile radius of where I live. It's crazy.