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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,498
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,498 |
Yesterday I called the guys at Tutt Land office and asked them about one of the theories I have been reading on here. I asked them if the antlers would get smaller after the deer were released and no longer getting the diet that they do at the breeder facility. This morning they sent me pictures of a 2 year old breeder they released on a property and did not add any supplemental feeding other than what is on the normal property around here. They said they planted green fields, did not add anything in the summer, and only put feed in the troughs when it was time to put the game cameras out. This property is about 75% mature pine plantation. They sent me pictures of him first released as a 2 yr, then they sent me pictures of him at 3, 4, and 5. I will ask them today if I can post them on the internet if anyone wants to see them. Do you? I do! Put them up! Be especially interesting if they also have pics of any of his offspring.
All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 37,025
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 37,025 |
Easy answer...hellll no the antlers won't be smaller. More horsechitt.
I've seen native Alabama deer and northern genetic deer raised side by side on the same feed and the northern deer are always much bigger, body and antlers. And they don't get smaller with age.
I'd like to see the pics also....
I've spent most of the money I've made in my lifetime on hunting and fishing. The rest I just wasted.....
proud Cracker-Americaan
muslims are like coyotes, only good one is a dead one
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 49
spike
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spike
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 49 |
I do! Put them up! Be especially interesting if they also have pics of any of his offspring.
They said it wasn't a problem so I will post them here tomorrow. I am just waiting on them to send me one that seems to be his offspring. They said they can't be 100% positive because you can't do a dna test on a wild deer till he is harvested in 4 or 5 more years but they think he is the breeder's offspring. It was the offspring of a doe (native) that was always with the breeder and they even saw him breed her in the field at least once and he has similar characteristics on his hide and antlers. Anyway, I will post sometime this weekend whenever they send me the rest of the pics.
Last edited by longbow76; 11/02/12 01:39 PM.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,130
Mildly Quirky
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Mildly Quirky
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,130 |
Looking forward to seeing these supposed offspring.
"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter
"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013
"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,254
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,254 |
Easy answer...hellll no the antlers won't be smaller. More horsechitt.
I've seen native Alabama deer and northern genetic deer raised side by side on the same feed and the northern deer are always much bigger, body and antlers. And they don't get smaller with age.
I'd like to see the pics also.... Maybe I missed it, but are these deer supposed to have northern "genetics". Read all about the "200" genetics" but certainly may have missed the "northern" part. However, we have all seen the photos of deer that were fed high protein for years then fed "normal" protein for a year and seen the corresponding drop in antler size. It was the offspring of a doe (native) that was always with the breeder and they even saw him breed her in the field at least once and he has similar characteristics on his hide and antlers. Really 
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 37,025
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 37,025 |
see if you can figure it out gobbler....yer a smart feller
I've spent most of the money I've made in my lifetime on hunting and fishing. The rest I just wasted.....
proud Cracker-Americaan
muslims are like coyotes, only good one is a dead one
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 21,973
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 21,973 |
I remember an article about twin bucks, one was placed in a great farmland habitat the other in a woodland only habitat, then they switched them a few years. Both changed antler characteristics per habitat
I do believe Northern deer start out with better antler characteristics and probably maintain that thru their life
“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,672
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,672 |
Easy answer...hellll no the antlers won't be smaller. More horsechitt.
I've seen native Alabama deer and northern genetic deer raised side by side on the same feed and the northern deer are always much bigger, body and antlers. And they don't get smaller with age.
I'd like to see the pics also.... Maybe I missed it, but are these deer supposed to have northern "genetics". Read all about the "200" genetics" but certainly may have missed the "northern" part. However, we have all seen the photos of deer that were fed high protein for years then fed "normal" protein for a year and seen the corresponding drop in antler size. It was the offspring of a doe (native) that was always with the breeder and they even saw him breed her in the field at least once and he has similar characteristics on his hide and antlers. Really I'm guessing that "native" doe was in a pen with said breeder buck. field = pen Guy on the QDMA forum ran some numbers using 35 deer per square mile in Marengo Co. (state says 45), but he went consevative. Then 600K acres / 640 acres = sq miles. He came up that they would have to release 329 deer to equal 1% of the present population. That 1% better have some strong genes to effect the other 99%.
Last edited by 2Dogs; 11/03/12 08:09 PM.
"Why do you ask"?
Always vote the slowest path to socialism.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,130
Mildly Quirky
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Mildly Quirky
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,130 |
Damn, another group of 1 percenters against the rest of the world?
So this is going to turn into Occupy Marengo?
"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter
"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013
"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,672
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,672 |
Damn, another group of 1 percenters against the rest of the world?
So this is going to turn into Occupy Marengo?
Clem, you so crazy! 
"Why do you ask"?
Always vote the slowest path to socialism.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,539
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,539 |
Will this buck qualify for AON's truck buck contest? Or any of the other Big Buck contest throughout the state. If it's killed legally, outside of a high fence, then he would qualify right? This is going to get real interesting when someone kills one of these giants. What about the Alabama whitetail record books. Is there a way to disqualify these deer if they are harvested. Just a thought. Someone may have brought this up but there are too many pages to go back through and check. I though about this as well. Really not the biggest issue, but still one that I doubt was considered...especially when it comes to a buck making B&C. Kind of potentially sucks IMO for Marengo Co. landowners that are opposed to this project. What if they do kill a booner? Can you imagine all the speculation and doubt?
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,539
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,539 |
This isnt as big of an issue a some of yo are making it! I agree that releasing a few bucks into a herd isnt going to help the marengo county herd the way they hope it will, but these deer are checked by the usda and not only that i would guess that 90% will be dead before the christmas. But i have a bigger issue with 50yr olds tht shoot fawns than i do with guys that try to help a herd even if its foolish. But there seem to be way to many people on here crying about all of this! How many of you are Bilogist or have a degree in wildlife management? I suspect that most of the angry hunters on here dont have a clue. I live in the county next door and my wife actually owns land in several parts of marengo and 99% of the local hunters and land owners over there are supporting this and curious about its reults. So if you live in hours away and dont hunt or own land dowm here then shutup!!! dang...99% you say...how did you come up with that stat?
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,539
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,539 |
Once again i agree this is not the way to get bigger deer! Listen i hunt in a area that we have big deer. I plant beans,peas,sunflower and clovers for the deer. We fead our deer with pellets and provide lots of minerals. I understand that a deer will not reach his potential until 5.5. I also believe that pressure is the #1 factor that people dont kill mature(5 1/2) deer. I think adding a couple of breader bucks to a herd is like i think gobbler said putting 1 bull in a pasture with 5,000 otherbulls! Its a bad idea, i just dont think that this is a big of a deal as some make it. It to me sure isnt a reason to start attacking other hunters. I might be wrong, i hope im not. All this was about was me getting sick of people getting on here and trashing others. When they dont have all the facts. I dont have all of them either, but what is was saying was all these guys on here that are so passionate about this issue why dont you contact Hal and Walter and talk with them? They will be civil unlike some of you and they will answer your questions about what all have they done. not trying to pick on you, but are they releasing a couple or a bunch of breeder bucks? I've read another Marengo Co. guy saying it was a lot of bucks... I think the big deal to a lot of us is the underlying issues this could create, including perception from non hunters. The more the hunting industry leans towards canned hunts and genetically altering the higher the chances that by the time my son has a kid hunting will be banned. Also this Roy guy and a few others are pushing their personal motives on everyone in the Co. and surrounding counties. So even "If" it doesn't create potential health concerns there are other legit concerns that a lot of outdoorsman have about this project and the can of worms this just opened or future projects.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 37,025
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 37,025 |
they ain't genetically "altered", just genetically different. I wish ya'll would quit saying that......
bout like saying they feed those deer steroids to make em big.....
I've spent most of the money I've made in my lifetime on hunting and fishing. The rest I just wasted.....
proud Cracker-Americaan
muslims are like coyotes, only good one is a dead one
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,319
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,319 |
Would like to see those pics
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,539
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,539 |
they ain't genetically "altered", just genetically different. I wish ya'll would quit saying that......
bout like saying they feed those deer steroids to make em big..... how are genetics not altered when you take a 200" buck and a doe that has dropped several 200" bucks and put them together and then release their offspring in a pen in an attempt to change genetics? Maybe I'm using the wrong word but isn't the idea to change (alter) genetics?
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,672
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,672 |
they ain't genetically "altered", just genetically different. I wish ya'll would quit saying that......
bout like saying they feed those deer steroids to make em big..... how are genetics not altered when you take a 200" buck and a doe that has dropped several 200" bucks and put them together and then release their offspring in a pen in an attempt to change genetics? Maybe I'm using the wrong word but isn't the idea to change (alter) genetics? Sounds like altering to me and Mr. Webster. per Mr. Webster: Alter, to make some change in,to vary.
"Why do you ask"?
Always vote the slowest path to socialism.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,130
Mildly Quirky
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Mildly Quirky
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,130 |
That's selective breeding of animals with superior genes.
To alter a gene would require removing or changing part of its DNA.
"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter
"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013
"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,254
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,254 |
That's selective breeding of animals with superior genes.
To alter a gene would require removing or changing part of its DNA.
Question - isn't "selective breeding" how they "altered" roundup ready soybeans, or did they actually do gene splices?
Last edited by gobbler; 11/04/12 11:44 PM.
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,130
Mildly Quirky
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Mildly Quirky
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,130 |
Maybe so. I see altered (in regard to genes) and selective breeding as two different things, though. Might be why I hated Mendel and his pea plants. http://anthro.palomar.edu/mendel/mendel_1.htm
"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter
"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013
"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
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