Aldeer.com Forums Alabama Deer Talk Serious Deer Talk Forum Where have the deer gone ?

I love the fact AL residents have the ability to manage how they see fit given the current season structure. That’s a positive in my book. Everyone has different objectives and expectations. That’s where it gets complicated. Just like the small acreage owner who simply wants to put a couple in the freezer each year and don’t care what they are has the ability to do that under current seasons and regs, the guy beside him wants to only kill mature deer, and I find this becoming more difficult each season. I don’t know how it is in south AL, but there’s properties up here being very well managed that might only produce a single 4+ yr old buck every few years 😳. That’s not encouraging. Only options available currently are to sell and buy something by like-minded folks or put up a fence. 🤷🏼‍♂️ North AL is growing VERY fast and large parcels are getting smaller each day. The smaller parcels are getting more pressure, and it’s really getting difficult to manage deer with a 3.5 month long gun season.

"claim that the state is not in the business of quality…..They are" I would argue that they are definitely NOT. Quality is NOT their business.

You used the word "quality" 7 times in regard to "management". Lets say I have 1,000 acres of land I want to manage for quail. Like predators on deer or turkeys, deer are competing directly and significantly with my quail management by eating all of the foods I want to manage for for quail. Therefore I want MINIMAL deer on my property. Will the State allow me to manage my deer herd as I see fit? Quality to one person is something TOTALLY different to someone else.

This only sounds good. You’re too smart to not realize that these four potential objectives will not coexist on the landscape. The state has chosen their dance partner via bad regs (I’m disappointed to hear you were part of that). Management friendly regs do not harm the “shoot any bucks” guy as bad as the “shoot what you want” regs hurt the Manager. You would have to acknowledge that.

Yep, that’s about right. Killing a deer inside a high fence is the same as free range, right? Shooting fish in a barrel is the same as catching a bass in a stocked pond. Taking candy from a baby is the same as buying it at the store. Candy is candy I guess.

I’ve also never seen a corn feeder that randomly shot a few kernels over a 3 acre area. I have seen them drop a bucket full in a 5x5 area in a food desert.

I don’t hate the corn crowd, my Mom hunts a feeder and I love her. I’m happy when she kills and congratulate her. But let’s not pretend there aren’t differences.

Yea, That was a LONG time ago. I have since leaned much more towards Corkys philosophy which I debated at length with him. We made recommendations that were NOT followed but that is water under the bridge. I am still a strong advocate for manage your deer herd on your property as you see fit. The neighbor will do the same. Deer crossing the boundary will be subject to the regulations that exist where their hooves are planted.

If birds of prey are killing all your quail, the state gives you zero options. I guess the point is that there are always scenarios that state regulations can and will impact your specific goals for the benefit of the resource as a whole.

True dat but that is Federal regulations NOT State regulations. To some a "quality deer herd" is a minimal deer herd.

That’s the politically correct cop out. Take that state vested authority and define terms and we can all go from there.

And here we go again with shortening the season or further buck restrictions. Matt says there is not a population issue so why would we need to do either? Is it so there may be a few more "trophy" bucks running around? Not really the state's job. BTW, I hunt for mature bucks and haven't killed 3 bucks in years, but that's my decision, not the state's.

To all the guys that want tags based off acreage. How much do you think leases or the price of tags given to landowners will go to when you say that small acreages can't kill deer? It would price everyone but the top earners out of being able to enjoy the outdoors. That's not the way to manage the resource.

The one’s wanting tags issued by acreage is thinking with the wrong end of their body. Besides tags will do nothing but keep the honest hunter honest. We have tags here in Louisiana. You’re issued 6 tags. 3 doe tags, 2 antlered tags and 1 either sex tag. We also have 10 deer season zones. Each zone has a specific buck/doe limit. In my areas I can kill 2 antlered deer and 4 does. Other areas are 3/3. When I do kill a deer I always validate my tag with LDWF but it would be so easy for me not to because of where I hunt and where I live. I know a ton of people that “claim” they aren’t checking the deer in. The GWs around here are spread thin and focus more on fishing and duck hunting.
I think the 3 buck limit in Alabama is a good thing. But I do not think we needed the 2 does a day limit. We limit ourselves to 2does and state limit on bucks at our place. It’s rare that any member will kill that many now because we don’t need to kill that many. We kill the deer we need and just enjoy the season. I do ask them to shoot a mature doe for meat rather then a young buck but the choice is there’s when an opportunity presents itself. And we log and game check every deer killed on our place.

“Yep, that’s about right. Killing a deer inside a high fence is the same as free range, right? Shooting fish in a barrel is the same as catching a bass in a stocked pond. Taking candy from a baby is the same as buying it at the store. Candy is candy I guess.

I’ve also never seen a corn feeder that randomly shot a few kernels over a 3 acre area. I have seen them drop a bucket full in a 5x5 area in a food desert.

I don’t hate the corn crowd, my Mom hunts a feeder and I love her. I’m happy when she kills and congratulate her. But let’s not pretend there aren’t differences.”

Double Creek2, you are missing the point I’m making. What I’m saying is taking candy from a brown headed baby is the same as taking candy from a blonde headed baby. Or buying it in Walmart is the same as buying it in target.

You are saying there is an unfair advantage to hunting over corn so you don’t do it. But why do you draw the line there? Corn vs planted corn, rifle vs shotgun, shooting house vs sitting next to a tree.

This is precisely why Alabama does not have the kind of deer hunting it easily could. Unfortunately, I don't see it ever changing.

Not at all. 20 plus years ago the concept was give loose regulations that allowed maximum flexibility to manage a resource as you saw fit as long as the population was protected from severe exploitation across the State or region. What most deer hunters don't get is that some folks don't like deer and don't care about deer. Take the quail manager/owner. He wants virtually no deer on his property, does not care to shoot them, does not want a bunch of hunters arguing over antlers and crying like schoolgirls when they don't get their way. Define terms - lets say he wants less than 20 deer per sq mile.... however that's irrelevant from the States perspective. They don't manage on a population level like that. So, that leaves limits. This guy wants to shoot as many does as possible on his place and I support his wish to do so. Liberal bag limits.....

If some other landowner wants an overpopulated deer herd with a browse line and cedar branches browsed up 6' and 30+ deer in a field every afternoon, I support his right to do so as well and he does not have to shoot anything but the 3 year old spikes that may occasionally walk into his field.

That whole idea is just flawed that you’re presenting….. You present it as if two neighbors can both just manage for no deer and bunch of deer and everyone get what they want…….If the neighbor who wants no deer is allowed to shoot any and everyone he can….does his decisions impact the neighbor who wants a bunch of deer??.....Yes it does

The problem with the point of view some of y’all want to take on managing “my deer herd” the way I see fit is that we arent a collective of individual 500 or even 5000 acre deer herds…and we especially arent a collective of 2 and 10 acre deer herds …..The decisions made by all of the individual hunters in an area are what impact “the deer herd”…….. In most cases there are hundreds of individual hunters making decisions for the herd……. The reality is that the state is managing the herds through managing hunters

So which neighbor should get his way and what makes what he wants more important than what the other guy wants?

Let me put it another way…….This is where I think bias creeps in to some opinions based on what they get used to seeing….You’re trying to frame rules as if everyone in the state is a Bullock County plantation owner……Meanwhile there are 10’s of thousands of properties being hunted that are 25 acres or less……Are there 10’s of thousands of plantation owners??.....The ideas your presenting of everyone doing just doing what they want to don’t even work well in the best situations much less across the reality of what exists in our state

This is a valid question. IMO, the solution is balanced regulation that better supports both potential objectives. Right now the structure strongly disincentivizes the manager desiring older top end individuals.

This statement I agree with. However, it holds true for both sides of the fence. Folks that get used to seeing 30 deer per sit think that it's the way it's supposed to be and get apprehensive when they only see 6-8 per sit, even if there's a healthy deer per acre ratio for the area.

It IS the way its supposed to be though when you manage thousands of acres of understory for maximum wildlife production…..Some habitat is suited to support a lot of deer and has been doing so for quite some time……Major changes in that are definitely noteworthy for anyone managing the states deer herds…..Any amount can be exploited if you allow a complete free for all with no limits to any of it