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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 29,174 Likes: 87
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 29,174 Likes: 87 |
Folks that know don't shoot old does........ 
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,197 Likes: 49
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,197 Likes: 49 |
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 468
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 468 |
Twaldrop4, nah man it doesn’t have anything to do with being rich or poor, it’s about reasonable limitations. You can’t honestly say that 5 guys with 5 acre house lots (that join each other) SHOuLd kill 15 bucks and unlimited does on 25 acres “just because it’s legal”.
If you think that’s ok, there’s no need in even talking about it.
I tried to give a reasonable example, even the 5000 acre club would have limitations of course.
All I know is the current set up of unlimited deer on unlimited acreage is a problem (that I see). No. I don’t think a guy with 5 acres should shoot that many deer at all. I usually have land across multiple counties kill 1-2 bucks a year total (last year didn’t kill a buck) and usually 1-2 does I think that guys with small acreage for sure kill more deer than they used to but I don’t think that a guy with a small acreage is limiting out in that acreage every year. Sure there are exceptions but in my opinion it is the exception. I guess I didn’t articulate my thoughts well. What I’m against is any government entity further restricting what I can and can’t do on property that I own. If it’s mine it’s mine and it’s no one else’s business what I do. My reason is if they can restrict what a small landowner does then the door is open to further restricting what a large landowner does. If the state wanted to fix it all that has to be done is physical tags and harsh penalties for violators. The 3 biggest deer I have access too right now are 50 yards from my bedroom window. One of them is a big deer. They’ll all live if it’s up to me. I want to shoot them but neighbors like seeing them and I don’t have but a couple acres so I’m not going to rock the boat. I get what you’re saying globe. If we sat and talked I think I could explain myself better. I basically think any and all regulations the state has done is waste. The 3 buck rule is stupid and unenforceable. You can still legally kill 2 spikes. That’s not helping much. Physical tags would fix alot of the problems but there’s not as much money to be made in that as selling privileges. I say all that non sense to say I don’t think government intervention will ever fix anything with game laws I don’t understand how years ago when you could kill a buck a day for the whole season, that the buck population wasn’t wiped out. And don’t tell me it’s because they weren’t feeding corn. I’ve been around Alabama hunters resident and non resident, since the early 80s. Everyone of them was baiting and everyone around them was baiting also. They shot every buck with any kind of hard antler on its head. They would always say the more they shot, the more they had. And there were still lots of big deer killed back then. I think most big deer that are killed are never heard about because of the fear of losing their hunting areas to big money. We still kill several fine bucks every year on our mediocre pine plantation property. Yall see some but yall don’t see all of them. Also there’s a ton of big bucks posted on Social media and in YouTube videos that are killed in Alabama. So there must still be some bucks somewhere. The only way to fix whatever problem with the deer population is to fix the problem with the mindset a big portion of the hunters in Alabama have. No tag, enforcement of buck limit, or making corn illegal to hunt over again will solve the problem. The mindset of those hunters is to far gone. You’re not going to change it. That’s easy to answer. Back then killing deer was a random occurrence. Now it’s targeted removal. Bucks of all ages were being killed in 80s, and management was not a thing for most. Coyotes were only beginning to make an appearance so recruitment was through the roof. Now, most deer are killed because of a camera. Hunters at minimum know the deer on the landscape and they have targeted removal of only the deer they want. In most cases it’s the absolute best 2-4 year olds. It leads to high grading and I see it everywhere. So those higher end bucks are not being recruited into the age classes needed for them to really show out. The bucks that are making it to 5-7 years old however, are the ones on the lower end of the bell curve. I see properties all the time that actually have a decent percentage of mature deer, but it’s all the ones nobody wants to shoot, but they’ll run each other over and step on their own momma to kill the 130” 3 year old old 10 point. 😂 If I'm reading this correctly, this accounts for a decrease in high end trophy bucks but not necessarily bucks or total deer. Is that correct?
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 10,980 Likes: 190
Fancy
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Fancy
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 10,980 Likes: 190 |
You would be correct. I’ve stated that before. AL don’t have a deer problem due to the current regs. We have an inability to manage due to current regs. You can’t expect deer to make it through a 4 month long season with all the technological help hunters have. At least not the ones they want to kill.
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 24,153 Likes: 305
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 24,153 Likes: 305 |
You would be correct. I’ve stated that before. AL don’t have a deer problem due to the current regs. We have an inability to manage due to current regs. You can’t expect deer to make it through a 4 month long season with all the technological help hunters have. At least not the ones they want to kill. Is that a regulations issue or a hunter attitude issue? I dont see how regulations will help hunters understand that shooting every 2-3 YO 8 pt they see isn't how to grow mature deer.
Dying ain't much of a living boy...Josey Wales
Molon Labe
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Joined: Sep 2023
Posts: 989 Likes: 53
6 point
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6 point
Joined: Sep 2023
Posts: 989 Likes: 53 |
You would be correct. I’ve stated that before. AL don’t have a deer problem due to the current regs. We have an inability to manage due to current regs. You can’t expect deer to make it through a 4 month long season with all the technological help hunters have. At least not the ones they want to kill. Is that a regulations issue or a hunter attitude issue? I dont see how regulations will help hunters understand that shooting every 2-3 YO 8 pt they see isn't how to grow mature deer. Do you believe most people will break the law? I guess if the majority of hunters are lawbreakers then there is no solution to the problem.
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Joined: Sep 2023
Posts: 989 Likes: 53
6 point
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6 point
Joined: Sep 2023
Posts: 989 Likes: 53 |
Management friendly regs would eliminate baiting, restrict the February extension to the south quarter of the state, add an enforceable tag system, and probably reduce buck limits by at least one.
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,247 Likes: 18
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,247 Likes: 18 |
Corn, technology, and too long of a gun season. However, getting any of those rolled back would be quite the undertaking.
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,389 Likes: 150
Glad He Doesn’t Have One
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Glad He Doesn’t Have One
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,389 Likes: 150 |
How does it affect the deer herd differently if the 130” 3 year old is killed at 3 vs killed at 5? Not killing every 3 year old buck, but just the high graded ones? Killing that deer at 3 or 4 but letting the older non desirable bucks walk?
Or are you saying it doesn’t necessarily affect the herd, it just affects that particular buck by not allowing him to reach full potential?
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Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 9,468 Likes: 14
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 9,468 Likes: 14 |
Can someone give me a brief summary of what's going on in this thread?
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 10,980 Likes: 190
Fancy
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Fancy
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 10,980 Likes: 190 |
Can someone give me a brief summary of what's going on in this thread? Deer aren’t being killed because hunters are sissy’s nowadays. 😂🤷🏼♂️😆 And hunters done killed them all cause they’re too efficient. 🤷🏼♂️😂
Last edited by Mbrock; 11/23/25 07:28 PM.
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Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 801 Likes: 11
6 point
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6 point
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 801 Likes: 11 |
Hold on. Are yall now agreeing with CNC that we do have a problem with the long term viability of our herd? We haven’t even addressed possible future disease mortality while baiting is allowed and damn crossbows being used all bow season.
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 10,980 Likes: 190
Fancy
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Fancy
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 10,980 Likes: 190 |
Hold on. Are yall now agreeing with CNC that we do have a problem with the long term viability of our herd? We haven’t even addressed possible future disease mortality while baiting is allowed and damn crossbows being used all bow season. I think CNC has a valid argument in select areas. I don’t think it’s widespread. Where CNC and I disagree is from the perspective that his observations have anything at all to do with lower deer harvests this season, which has nothing to with what he’s talking about. Ppl had pictures of plenty of deer before acorns started falling and summer temps hung around a little later than usual. Harvest had nothing to do with that in any way.
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2 members like this:
CrappieMan, Boathand |
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Joined: Jun 2025
Posts: 835 Likes: 54
6 point
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6 point
Joined: Jun 2025
Posts: 835 Likes: 54 |
Corn, technology, and too long of a gun season. However, getting any of those rolled back would be quite the undertaking. They’ll ban the cameras before they ban the corn, which is insane. I can’t imagine staring at a feeder all day to kill a deer. It’s the equivalent of shooting a turkey off the roost, IMO. Sure, you killed, but we all know there is an asterisk attached to it.
________________________________________
In a world of game takers, be a gamekeeper.
"Of what avail are forty freedoms without a blank spot on the map?"
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 29,174 Likes: 87
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 29,174 Likes: 87 |
Management friendly regs would eliminate baiting, restrict the February extension to the south quarter of the state, add an enforceable tag system, and probably reduce buck limits by at least one. This is about the reality of it.....If you keep baiting, which is likely a given, then you'd likely have to go to an enforced two buck limit to see change
Last edited by CNC; 11/23/25 09:47 PM.
Folks that know don't shoot old does........
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,378 Likes: 10
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,378 Likes: 10 |
So what is the responsibility of the GFC? I made this argument decades ago as a member of the deer committee that recommended buck restictions. Why can't a deer manager/property owner/hunter manage his deer population to harvest only spikes or yearlings? What if he/she didn't care about older bucks? Is it the States responsibility to have a "mature" buck age structure in the population or only to allow people to manage "their" herd as they see fit. As long as they don't wipe them out, they should be able to manage for 1) maximum population 2) minimum population 3) trophy bucks 4) shooting any bucks. Should we rely on the State to tell us how many deer we need on our place and what the sex/age structure should be? Hmmm...............
I work on properties where I may kill as many does as I can to keep the population in check. Should I have a "personal limit"? I don't care about horns and haven't shot a buck in at least 15 years and that includes passing 130+" deer.
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,167 Likes: 7
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,167 Likes: 7 |
So the rich people can enjoy hunting more than a poor guy because he owns more. Yeah I’m not for that at all. If i own land. I’ll kill what i want within the regulations. If my big land owner neighbor don’t like it. Well that sucks for him. If I got a place the deer want to be then I’m going to kill them there That’s not it at all. They just have different objectives, and usually the tiny parcels aren’t as interested in managing. I’m certainly not saying either is right or wrong. It’s just different mindsets. What I’ve noticed from those who can afford larger properties are three solutions to the problem. To begin with they buy a place large enough they think they can manage. When they find out they can’t they… 1. Either sell it and move on 2. Decide if they can’t manage it they’ll just join the neighbors and kill everything 3. Put a fence up and exclude everyone else NONE of those options are a win for wildlife. Absolutely none. When they sell that’s acres that were being actively managed for improved wildlife habitat, that likely won’t be later. If they decide to kill whatever they want, not only are they giving in to neighbors, but their neighbors also lose because now they won’t have as many deer at their feeder to hunt, but continue the killing. If they high fence the neighbors lose the ability to hunt altogether if they own small acreages without connecting habitat. It’s not a game of killing the kings deer. It’s a game of balance and understanding as takers of the resource there needs to be a lot of giving. The landowners with acreage give a lot for the takers to benefit. That’s just truth. It’s not being ugly. Wealthy landowners do a lot for wildlife and they often times are the reason small guys have the opportunity they do. If the wealthy quit giving a dang about deer management the little guy is screwed too. This. I hunt a 350 acre parcel in Mentone area. We have throughout the years had multiple people split some of the surrounding tracts from 50 ac to now multiple 5-15 ac tracts. They shoot everything. After years of planting etc, the landowner who I’ve hunted with has said screw it despite him having unlimited money. He has gone to #2 after years of us passing up buck after buck only to never see etc. Plus, half our group are meat only hunters but we’re kept at bay from shooting small buck until recently. He no longer plants fields just bushhogs and dumps corn now. He now is fine with anyone shooting whatever because “the neighbors will kill it”. It’s sad and sucks. Now, the property is a shell of what it was and what it can become. I’m trying to get all my neighbors on the same page unfortunately that won’t happen. It’s not as bad when the neighbor with 200 acres kills two small bucks but when the neighbor with 3 acres kills 3 1.5-2.5 yr old bucks that flies up my ass. Or when he shoots 4-5 does a year wounding others in the process. I had great neighbors for years and if I can talk the wife into it won’t have to deal with these anymore eventually.
Would walk over a naked woman to get to a gobblin turkey!
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Joined: Jun 2025
Posts: 835 Likes: 54
6 point
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6 point
Joined: Jun 2025
Posts: 835 Likes: 54 |
So what is the responsibility of the GFC? To manage the resource to the best of their ability to ensure healthy populations into the future.
________________________________________
In a world of game takers, be a gamekeeper.
"Of what avail are forty freedoms without a blank spot on the map?"
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,389 Likes: 150
Glad He Doesn’t Have One
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Glad He Doesn’t Have One
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,389 Likes: 150 |
Corn, technology, and too long of a gun season. However, getting any of those rolled back would be quite the undertaking. They’ll ban the cameras before they ban the corn, which is insane. I can’t imagine staring at a feeder all day to kill a deer. It’s the equivalent of shooting a turkey off the roost, IMO. Sure, you killed, but we all know there is an asterisk attached to it. This statement really shows how engrained “corn is bad” is in some people’s minds. Hunting a food source is ok. Hunting a food source you create is ok. Hunting a food source you plant is ok. But if someone else planted the food source and you purchased it from them… it’s not ok. Wait… no… it’s ok if you purchase the food source from someone else, but first you have to bury it in the ground, let it grow, and produce the exact same food source… then it’s ok.
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 29,174 Likes: 87
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 29,174 Likes: 87 |
So what is the responsibility of the GFC? I made this argument decades ago as a member of the deer committee that recommended buck restictions. Why can't a deer manager/property owner/hunter manage his deer population to harvest only spikes or yearlings? What if he/she didn't care about older bucks? Is it the States responsibility to have a "mature" buck age structure in the population or only to allow people to manage "their" herd as they see fit. As long as they don't wipe them out, they should be able to manage for 1) maximum population 2) minimum population 3) trophy bucks 4) shooting any bucks. Should we rely on the State to tell us how many deer we need on our place and what the sex/age structure should be? Hmmm...............
I work on properties where I may kill as many does as I can to keep the population in check. Should I have a "personal limit"? I don't care about horns and haven't shot a buck in at least 15 years and that includes passing 130+" deer. The problem with that argument is that you cant set all of the regs up to result in the quality being as chitty as it possibly can be and then claim that the state is not in the business of quality…..They are….. its just bad quality……Just like legalizing baiting for example and the impact its had…..That’s a management decision the state made for everyone that has decreased overall quality for many despite what the individual did or didn’t want…….For some the management decision they just made for everyone to increase the doe bag limits will decrease quality…..Extending the season into Feb in north Alabama is a management decision the state made for all of those hunters that decreased quality……You cant have your cake and eat it too on this one……If it’s acceptable to make management decisions for everybody that runs the quality into the ground then its acceptable to make ones for everybody that improves it
Last edited by CNC; 11/23/25 10:29 PM.
Folks that know don't shoot old does........
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