Aldeer.com Forums Alabama Deer Talk Serious Deer Talk Forum Where have the deer gone ?

I’ve not once been on a small or large property with a deer population problem. Sex ratio yes, lack of deer, no.

Let’s lower the heat guys, no one on this thread is the enemy of good intentions for the resource.

How do you know what it represents? I don’t know of anyone that hunts in Alabama, and I know a bunch of them, that has a deer number problem the way you say we do. I would think if 90% of the state was having a problem, I would have heard about it.

He has no clue as to what it represents. Bias also comes when you talk like all you ever see is never ending deerless wastelands......and that doesn't represent 90% of what's occurring either. It probably doesn't represent 9%.

Hey CNC, let me ask a question. It’s legit. Not trying to argue. Just wanna know where you’re at on expectations. What would be your target population in acres per deer on the landscape?

I haven’t noticed a lack of deer on the multiple properties I have been on across the state this year. In fact, it is the other direction. The population appears to be growing. That said, the properties I have been on are pretty good habitat.

That would be dependent on the amount it takes to meet the “demand” for the number of bucks being killed by hunters and still have some semblance of quality as the end result…….Right now the demand is open ended with no real limits....

Well what you are describing is not a deer problem or habitat problem, it is a hunter problem. People taking too much of the resource. Deer as a whole in this state are doing just fine. First problem is that Alabama is full of trigger happy yahoos that dont care one bit about the resource, managing, improving or maintaining it. Second problem is that a large majority of Alabama hunters like to shoot anything with brown fur that they see, and feel the need to shoot something every time that they go in the woods so that they can brag and say, "I killed 8 or 20 deer last year." Third problem is that the state, who is supposed to be managing the resource, continues to act like the resource is endless, while at the same time making rules that allow for the abuse of the resource to continue to increase. Fourth is that there is virtually zero enforcement of game regulations in the state. Fact of the matter is that 95% of the wildlife decisions in Alabama are based and influenced by $$$.

I guess that's one way of characterizing it.........

Everyone says deer are smart. Well they are learning to read a calendar.

That doesn’t really answer my question. In an ideal situation how many deer would you like to see? 64 deer a square mile is a deer per 10 acres. 128 deer per square mile is a deer per 5 acres. Where would you like for it to be?

A couple weeks ago when my buddy and I went to the camp to bow hunt, we saw 26 deer in 3 days. 13 of those 26 were seen at one stand in a morning hunt. It was a stand on the edge of a hardwood creek bottom loaded with water oak acorns. Every deer was was just walking around like vacuum cleaners sucking up the acorns. However all of our plots were also clipped square about an inch tall. I could throw up a dime in anyone of our plots and it was guaranteed to land in a deer track. No lack of deer on our place. I’m actually hoping some of our no shooters decide to take a couple deer this year.

I agree with abolt300.

How do you know what's occurring from The Gulf of America to the Tennessee line?

That does answer the question though……In an ideal situation I would like to see a reasonable amount of “quality” occurring on a state level instead of us just running it in the ground as far as special interests can run it………The total number of deer it takes to accomplish that depends on the total number of bucks you plan on allowing to be shot……How many out of state hunters do you allow??…….How many bucks does each hunter get??......If its all just open ended with no limits or enforcement on anything then it doesn’t matter what we agree on as far as a goal density per acre…… it will still likely be exploited by “too many” getting shot in most areas……

So if we are going to endlessly bait up and shoot as many bucks as we can stack hunters in here to let shoot and misinform the public about it all…….then I guess I want the population to be as high as we can make it. Seems like a reasonable position to take under the circumstances.

Personally, if I’m managing 640 acres, I’d want 20% less than carrying capacity. So if carrying capacity was 30, I want 24. Ideally at 1.5 to 1 with bucks aged nubbin to old. Here’s the kicker that Alabama clubs miss…that is ONLY going to allow buck harvest of one or two animals a year! So you’re really screwed on quality management with 2,000 acres and ten members all hoping to fill state legal buck tags.

Note the big challenge in my above perfect world scenario is that even myself and other better managers have a near impossible task to nail the true carrying capacity year to year.

Bullock county is a big county. 623 square miles - almost 400,000 acres. Killing a doe per 200 acres gets you 2,000 does killed (3 dead deer per sq mi). An extra 900 deer killed is a deer per 444 acres or 1.4 additional dead deer per sq mi. Assuming that the county is populated with a deer per 10 acres or 64 deer per sq mi that would be 40,000 deer in the county. You can't tell me that killing an extra deer per 444 acres would be noticeable countywide. That "extra" is only 2.3% of the population. I would argue that only killing 7.5% of the population is not enough. Even if the population is a deer per 20 acres, thats still killing only 15% of the population.

This is where I was eventually going. 😁

And CNC, I agree with you 100% there’s an over harvest of bucks in a LOT of areas in AL. So bad that deer in the 4+ age class are virtually nonexistent. I’m not the enemy here because I’m pointing out that acorns and warm weather will impact deer harvest totals.