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89 members (DGAMBLER, CRUTCHJD76, cartervj, SouthBamaSlayer, tmhrmh1, 3Gs, bamafan1966, coldtrail, sloughfoot, gman, BearBranch, Irishguy, Treelimb, Jstocks, BPI, Muzzy76, Fullthrottle, hunter84, fingers, jhardy, Brian_C, 10 POINT, Kevinpmac, Shotts, CAL, tucker07, Antelope08, Woody1, Weedpicker, Kelly_123, Turkey, NoHuntin, Obsession, MarkCollin, Jtb51b, GrandSlam, EricS, CAM, Ben2, fur_n_feathers, goodman_hunter, BBD23, BhamFred, RidgeRanger, Mbrock, Beer Belly, Fishbones, twaldrop4, dagwood, 700ltr308, Bustinbeards, Mjh97, Gobble4me757, eclipse829, G/H, Cjunkin, bamaeyedoc, rutwad, El_Matador, IMISSALDEER, Ray_Coon, Solothurn, GomerPyle, DonH, Tall Dog, M48scout, Pwyse, RocN151, Crappie, Meatn3, USeeMSpurs, 5Pages, deerman24, hayman, murf205, Geeb, PourIron12, Ar-Humter, johnnyj, TurkeyJoe, timberwolfe, 8 invisible),
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Key:
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,498
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,498 |
Can this be achieved thru selective breeding Whatever it is, I, personally, think it is severely damaging our sport, along with the hunting video business. The "project" does little to help in that regard either. My $.02 Spot on, Gob. I find myself agreeing with you more and more,but......I still don't like pines.  Maybe we can tag team PCP and win one But I like pines. 
All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997 |
Auburn has a political science curriculum that often takes a back seat to it's other fields of study. Here's an Auburn professor's definiton of a theory that seems to be having a lot to do with the problems that the Big Buck Project is currently facing: A Glossary of Political Economy Terms
by Dr. Paul M. Johnson
Elite (elitist) theory
The theoretical view held by many social scientists which holds that American politics is best understood through the generalization that nearly all political power is held by a relatively small and wealthy group of people sharing similar values and interests and mostly coming from relatively similar privileged backgrounds. Most of the top leaders in all or nearly all key sectors of society are seen as recruited from this same social group, and elite theorists emphasize the degree to which interlocking corporate and foundation directorates, old school ties and frequent social interaction tend to link together and facilitate coordination between the top leaders in business, government, civic organizations, educational and cultural establishments and the mass media. This "power elite" can effectively dictate the main goals (if not always the practical means and details) for all really important government policy making (as well as dominate the activities of the major mass media and educational/cultural organizations in society) by virtue of their control over the economic resources of the major business and financial organizations in the country. Their power is seen as based most fundamentally on their personal economic resources and especially on their positions within the top management of the big corporations, and does not really depend upon their ability to garner mass support through efforts to "represent" the interests of broader social groups. Elitist theoreticians differ somewhat among themselves on such questions as how open the power elite is to "new blood," the exact degree of agreement or disagreement that usually prevails within its ranks, and the degree of genuine concern (or lack thereof) for the broader public welfare that enters into their choices of public policy goals, but all such theorists broadly share the notion that it is these few thousand "movers and shakers" who really run the country and determine the basic directions of public policy, certainly not the manipulated and powerless masses of ordinary voters choosing among candidates at election time.
[See also: aristocracy, oligarchy, pluralist theory]
link: A Glossary of Political Economy Terms Applied on a smaller scale to state politics, and then scaled down to hunting/fishing politics, the theory is obviously in play here at home in Alabama. If it doesn't come from Auburn, the AWF, ALFA, and now the QDMA, then it won't pass the smell test in Alabama. Elitist bureacrats will spend your liberty like they spend federal grant money and make you think you like it if you aren't vigilant.
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,254
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,254 |
If it doesn't come from Auburn, the AWF, ALFA, and now the QDMA, then it won't pass the smell test in Alabama.
Elitist bureacrats will spend your liberty like they spend federal grant money and make you think you like it if you aren't vigilant. Dang, figured you might weigh in but was wrong on sides again  Maybe you're like PCP and just wait to get on opposite sides from me. I sure figured this argument would be the same as yours... Go figure  The bottom line is that if I have a property there, and I DON"T want these deer on my place, this project negatively effects MY property rights and that does not seem to have been considered - kinda like why WOULDN'T"T any one want this??
Your analogy to fallow deer is a good one, but substitute PIGS or COYOTES for fallow deer - get my point? Both of these critters WERE released by well-intentioned landowners just trying to help out the sportsmen of Alabama to have another critter to hunt. Just deciding that since someone thinks it is good then lets subject everyone to it is the issue. I personal am GLAD the fallows are gone - again there are negative effects of exotic wildlife in free-range situations and if I don't want them, I shouldn't be subject to someone elses thought of a good idea. I wish the same had happened to pigs, kudzu, privet, bahaia, bermuda, fescue, starlings, European sparrows, chinaberry, popcorn tree, mimosa, autumn olive, wisteria, etc... all of which were released or established with good intentions but are having significant negative consequences.
Aren't the elitists the $$ guys releasing these deer and forcing landowners who DON"T want them to have them on their property? They are not in a high fence and can wander anywhere they want.
Last edited by gobbler; 10/15/12 05:13 PM.
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,498
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,498 |
Gobbler - Just realized you said you are against bahaia, bermuda, and fescue. I presume you are against cows too? I still don't think I've take a "side" on the BBP. I guess you require 100% agreement or the poster is on the "other side." 
All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,254
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,254 |
Gobbler - Just realized you said you are against bahaia, bermuda, and fescue. I presume you are against cows too? I still don't think I've take a "side" on the BBP. I guess you require 100% agreement or the poster is on the "other side." As a Biologist, you pretty much have to be against exotic, invasive, warm season grasses, if you realize the damage they do to wildlife habitat and wildlife foods. We've got plenty of native warm season grasses that are suited to our suite of wildlife species and habitats. These can also effectively be used to graze cows on if done right and still retain wildlife value. Personally, the only good place for a cow is on a grill, however, I could not be more for private property rights and the ability to manage ones own land however one sees fit as long as it does not impact others in their ability to enjoy theirs. RE, sides, I was using that fancy term again - hyperbole ... for effect
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,498
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,498 |
>>>We've got plenty of native warm season grasses that are suited to our suite of wildlife species and habitats. These can also effectively be used to graze cows on if done right and still retain wildlife value.<<< I would have thought the loss of the various kinds of bermuda, pensacola bahia, and tall fescue would mean the end of the cattle business in AL. I'm not doubting you, but what could replace these for grazing and hay? I agree with you on common bermuda and fescue being a plague for wildlife. I've about rid the place of fescue, and don't know how it ever got there, and have made progress on the bermuda. But I've always kinda liked the bahaia; sure does hold the roads together well. And produces lots of grasshoppers for the young turkeys. You are gonna need a lot more Mexicans if you intend to wipe these out. Guess the hijack of this thread is now complete.
All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,672
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,672 |
This is being hotly debated on a forum on the QDMA web site. 
"Why do you ask"?
Always vote the slowest path to socialism.
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Posts: 24,507
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
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" I do view Jim Waltz as a really good Presidential candidate"
Bama_Earl
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Posts: 37,672
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,672 |
www.qdma.com/forums In general forum,thread title, someones catching on...
"Why do you ask"?
Always vote the slowest path to socialism.
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 49
spike
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spike
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 49 |
Looks like qdma's campaign to stop them is really working.........seems they are releasing deer all over the place. 
Last edited by longbow76; 10/31/12 09:13 AM.
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Posts: 4,689
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,689 |
That top picture where the buck just stands outside of the trailer next to the guy is pretty cool.
"Any way you look at it, most of the problems facing baboons can be expressed in two words: other baboons" -
D.L. Cheney and R.M. Seyfarth
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 37,025
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 37,025 |
that bottom pic is a pretty good 1.5 year old buck...
I've spent most of the money I've made in my lifetime on hunting and fishing. The rest I just wasted.....
proud Cracker-Americaan
muslims are like coyotes, only good one is a dead one
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,130
Mildly Quirky
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Mildly Quirky
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,130 |
Pshaw, Fred. That's a mature whopper with superior genes. It's just the camera angle.
"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter
"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013
"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,028
6 point
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6 point
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,028 |
From the BBD website:
"Tutt Land Company conducted a 5 year controlled research project in Marengo County that yielded amazing results in both herd health and quality antler growth by introducing new trophy genetics to the native herd"
Can someone please explain to me how introducing a deer into an ecosystem that already has one of the highest deer densities in the state improves herd health just because it has larger antlers?
Where is their data on this 5 year study? How did they achieve their conclusions? I need to see scientific data and analysis. This is just rhetoric without it.
When are people going to realize that herd health doesn't always mean B&C deer.
It's not the strongest species to survive, nor the most intelligent, but the ones most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 49
spike
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spike
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 49 |
When are people going to realize that herd health doesn't always mean B&C deer. Never. You are fighting a losing battle and wasting your breath if you are trying to convince the bulk of deer hunters not to worry about bagging one with large antlers. That is what drives the industry and why it is now as big as it has grown. Heck, it is the only reason groups like QDMA have so many members. Like it or not, that is what deer hunting is about for probably 90% or more of the people who carry a weapon into the woods looking to kill a deer these days. I use the phrase "carrying a weapon to kill" because I do not believe what most people do these days is considered hunting. Let's just call it what it is. Most people are just killing. And I can only speak for the area I live in, but around here if they didn't grow antlers most of the people would go ahead and wipe them out to get them off their property, especially all the farmers and cattlemen.
Last edited by longbow76; 10/31/12 12:47 PM.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,672
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,672 |
That's what they're tuning loose! If those bucks been eating super deer chow and all the other goodies deer get in a petting zoo, not impressive! How old is the deer in the top pic ?
Those bucks off spings not going to be anything special, eating pinecones and that other LA wild deer food.
"Why do you ask"?
Always vote the slowest path to socialism.
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,517
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,517 |
Well I say it is there money there land and good luck. If I had a barrel full of money and a few thousand acres I would let them turn loose a hundred of them.
Clem I am pretty sure your aviator cause me to have a seizure.
If you're gonna be stupid you better be tough.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 37,025
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 37,025 |
That's what they're tuning loose! If those bucks been eating super deer chow and all the other goodies deer get in a petting zoo, not impressive! How old is the deer in the top pic ?
Those bucks off spings not going to be anything special, eating pinecones and that other LA wild deer food. you have 1.5 year old bucks like the bottom pic on your land now????
I've spent most of the money I've made in my lifetime on hunting and fishing. The rest I just wasted.....
proud Cracker-Americaan
muslims are like coyotes, only good one is a dead one
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,829
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,829 |
That first buck is a big mature nice creature!
I'm with BhamFred....there aren't too many places in the country with 1.5 year old bucks like that.
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,254
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,254 |
That's what they're tuning loose! If those bucks been eating super deer chow and all the other goodies deer get in a petting zoo, not impressive! How old is the deer in the top pic ?
Those bucks off spings not going to be anything special, eating pinecones and that other LA wild deer food. you have 1.5 year old bucks like the bottom pic on your land now???? Wonder what the odds are he has antlers as big as that next year when he has a full year to forage on native browse with the rest of the multitude in Marengo co? Not arguing, just wondering I'm with Mike... seizures - I would worry about a lawsuit!
Last edited by gobbler; 10/31/12 08:56 PM.
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
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