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Lockjaw if the limit was infinite on both bucks and does, it would work on our club and surrounding properties.

In other words, there’s almost no one around us that kills all 3 of their bucks and all their does. We shoot does because we have to, not because we want to.

Your property is not the norm in Alabama.

2 does a day gives us the opportunity to kill the does we have to kill to manage the herd in a more timely manner. It lets the woods rest before January gets here.

If no one in Alabama killed a doe everyday if the season, why would you think someone would kill double that?

You know this ^^^ is probably why the “timelines” seem different when making comparing between some places like Jackson co and south Alabama……If Jackson Co hunters are going through years where “opportunities” fluctuate greatly….then something like the 2 doe change may not have its full initial impact until next year or whenever the next bad acorn crop hits and the "up" year hits again…..Same with baiting…..It may be something that has a big impact every other year where as pine plantations may be affected closer to the same annually without the massive mast crop swings.....That would explain the timeline differences with the trends

Shoot two does or twenty does.

It's all up to YOU.

On some properties, they need to whack em and stack em and some they dont need to shoot any. By allowing 2 a day per hunter gives those that NEED to do it another management tool.

But there's too many hunters that want to post a picture of little 10 yo Johnny on the book of faces with a doe and say they're managing the herd without a clue as to what that really means. They can't understand that the limits are NOT a directive to shoot as many as possible anywhere in the state.

Every time you pull the trigger, you've done something to manage the herd, either positively or negatively.

I have been on 3 different leases. 1 in Bibb Co, 2 in Shelby. All Timber Co. All the same. Poor habitat management. All had yote issues. A liberal doe harvest means every doe that walks out on a greenfield gets shot. Then you roll into the rut, and the bucks go looking for doe's and the ones left are gun shy and buried up in the thick stuff no one can hunt. They (members) get frustrated they don't ever seem to kill a nice buck, and stop seeing doe's to shoot, and they go to the next club, and do the same thing. It gets to the point if you have a 6pt or better rule, every deer that has 6 or more points gets killed. People go, if I let that buck walk, the next guy will kill it, so I better kill it.

I have just summed up most hunting clubs. Someone tell me I am wrong.

What I noticed on mine was killing doe's led to a situation where I had more spikes, 3pt's and forkhorns. As in probably 2 to 1 ratio. It frustrated me. Some of you may remember me fussing about it. I had always been told the deer would reproduce to fill the gap. I finally emailed Dr. Grant Woods and asked him about it. He said that was false. Deer have offspring in a 50/50 split. He said the best I could expect was 48/52. Then I saw the GA study on predator control and fawn recruitment. That gets me to the math that can't be ignored. On your typical timber co lease, for every doe you kill, you need 2 to survive and have twins. Half of the 4 fawns should be doe's, and Yotes will kill 2 of the 4. That leaves you with a buck and doe fawn.

If I kill 10 doe's, I need 20 to survive, be bred and have twins. If I kill 15, I need 30 to survive, be bred and have twins. If I kill 20, I need 40. See where the math goes? I have 10 members, if all 10 kill 2 doe's (which is the limit), then I need 40 to survive just to replace those deer. How many bucks do I have on the lease? 1050 acres. I have (supposedly) 1 mature buck per 250 acres. I have alot of spikes and buttons, because we aren't kills 20 bucks a season. The herd will eventually get way out of balance. Which mine was a few years ago. This is the first year I feel like I am back to "normal". I have been running the club for 4 years now. That's how long it took. We probably killed 4 or 5 doe's in that time frame. More bucks.

So at what point do I exceed the actual carrying capacity of the lease? The more doe's I kill, the more I need to survive to replace them. There has to be a balance, and allowing people to kill 2 a day isn't going to make that happen. That's why I would prefer a tighter limit and people use Dmap to deal with excess doe's.

This year was a PITA, I had to replace 6 members. It's hard to keep people if they hunt and don't ever see a deer. I bet I had 10 people say they would take a spot, and then never pay. If they hunt and don't even see a deer, what's the chance they will renew? ZIP! Everyone wants to kill deer. No one seems to want to manage the population. And this 2 doe a day limit makes people think we have enough deer to sustain that.

It’s a sham….The luxury a few people gain from it will come at a cost to many…..

You are wrong. You summed up your experience with clubs full of goobers that don’t know what they are doing. Obviously. I’ve never hunted in a club like that. But I’m careful and picky.

We hunt about 2500acres. We kill does 20-25 a year. We have more deer now than we ever have. Ours is a timber lease. We can’t burn but we work hard to create the best habitat we can. We also know what our neighbors in a surrounding 4k acres are killing.

Why are you saying your does need to have twins? If you have 30 does, you kill 10, the leftover 20 would have 20 fawns (not factoring in recruitment rates) and 20 of those would be does and you are back to 30.
(Edit: I see what your saying now… you believe you have a 50%recruitment rates)

Think about this. You can’t legislate morality. Just like you can’t legislate someone into managing their deer herd. They either gonna do it or they ain’t. When the limit was 1 doe a day, you could make your same argument about 2 does a day isn’t going to balance the herd. Heck you could make that argument about shrinking the doe season to 2 weeks. If someone is mismanaging their deer, they are going to do it regardless of what the law says.

It sounds like you got some crappy ground to hunt. I hate that for you. But I’m glad you are doing the hard work to make it the best it can be. Hats off to you for that. But please don’t assume that all of Alabama is like your ground. And all of Alabama is like the clubs you’ve been in.

I have a lot of does, but not seeing many fawns. That does have me a little hesitant to kill more than 2-3 does. I think I have 4 or 5 fawns that regularly show up on camera. Lots of does with none.

Leased or owned? In either case, your situation is better than 90%

Lockjaw, how many members are you running on 1,100 acres? It may be that fewer quality members paying more would make for a better experience.

'23 was a bumper acorn crop up here as well.

I think I would shoot 0 does until Feb, go low pressure, hunt the rut, keep my does on the corn piles and food plots then Feb 1st send out the invite to all my friends and load the stands up twice a day and give em the full court press until the 10th.

Not a bad way to do it at all. Our problem is shooting all the does in that small time frame. It’s like pulling teeth to get some members to kill one. Our goal is to get ours killed before Dec 10 and no does on food plots with a gun after Nov 30th.

Just invite everyone you know, like open guest days from the 1-10, does only for them- they’ll shoot

Or if you allow them to not be doe only, tell em for a buck it’s $1000 and you’ll have it mounted for them, all they got to do is pick out the pose.

This is why it’s good to do things in 5 year increments. Trying a new food plots technique? Give it 5 years. Gonna not shoot any does? Do it for 5 years. Going to change harvest restrictions on bucks? Do it for 5 years. It tends to take the ups and downs out of it.

Well Feb 1 is a Saturday and 10 is a Wednesday, so you got a good two weekends to do it. Might would work. But these guests are going to have to pass on some good 3-4 years old bucks coming to the food plots and feeders trying to put that weight back on. They hungry as heck that month.

Bucks are for paying members… just sayin’

This^^^. Some savvy bucks can’t help but hit corn in February to replenish. It’s also why I hate the Feb extension. You’ve almost advanced that good 3 yr old to the next age class but he gets smoked at the feeder on the last day of the season so that someone can post to instagram hashtag tagged out!

Tagged out with a fine at our club. Post that on instagram.



It could work for sure. At least it would be a good time to kill some of you were below your goal.

I'm not on board with not shooting any does for 5 years on population control on a large property. If you have huntable numbers of Whitetails , 5 years with no crowd control ........ can get pretty crowded. 5 years of harvest restrictions on bucks , what happens after 5 years , ya start mowing them down?

If something isn't working , I'm not waiting 5 years to change it.

Well it might get crowded. It might not. Depends on your neighbors. That’s why you do it for 5 years and record deer weights.

Well after 5 years of changing your harvest restrictions on bucks, you look at the results and see if your goals were accomplished and then make a decision on what to do. It’s not rocket science man.

If you want to chase your tail every year go ahead. But just because it didn’t work in year 2 doesn’t mean after 5 years your goal won’t be accomplished. Think of it like stocks. There are some ups and downs each year but you need to look and see if your management decisions are trending towards your goals or not.

If a club has been killing 6 points are better for 10 years and then they put restrictions on buck harvests and say you can only shoot 5 year old bucks now… do you think they need to make the decision to keep that rule after 1 or 2 season? Of course not. They need to do it for 5 seasons and then look at the results.

Give your management decisions time to have an impact on the deer herd. An impact that is above the small up and down swings that happen from year to year.