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Joined: Dec 2013
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a.k.a. Dingle Johnson
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a.k.a. Dingle Johnson
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 28,327 Likes: 565 |
Yeah ,,,, but with out them (war) evil would rule Yep, war is a necessary evil. The conviction that war is never morally acceptable would eventually lead to a weak and relatively defenseless country. "You are both confusing having and maintaining a strong military with going out and actively making war against someone else. True good guys don't make war against other people for vanity or profit. The true good guys only go to war to defend their people or their property."
"When I say ever thing I mean ever thing." - Frankie
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,529 Likes: 48
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,529 Likes: 48 |
Yeah ,,,, but with out them (war) evil would rule Yep, war is a necessary evil. The conviction that war is never morally acceptable would eventually lead to a weak and relatively defenseless country. "You are both confusing having and maintaining a strong military with going out and actively making war against someone else. True good guys don't make war against other people for vanity or profit. The true good guys only go to war to defend their people or their property." What wars did the U.S. start (in modern times) over vanity or profit? I personally believe we had a valid reason for going to Afghanistan and Iraq.
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 28,327 Likes: 565
a.k.a. Dingle Johnson
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a.k.a. Dingle Johnson
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 28,327 Likes: 565 |
Yeah ,,,, but with out them (war) evil would rule Yep, war is a necessary evil. The conviction that war is never morally acceptable would eventually lead to a weak and relatively defenseless country. "You are both confusing having and maintaining a strong military with going out and actively making war against someone else. True good guys don't make war against other people for vanity or profit. The true good guys only go to war to defend their people or their property." What wars did the U.S. start (in modern times) over vanity or profit? I personally believe we had a valid reason for going to Afghanistan and Iraq. I don't believe I have called out the US in this thread, although we are not as pure as the driven snow as some die hard patriots must believe. I try to be a realist and unbiased. I've studied the history of the US and our CIA and I have my own conclusions, but ultimately that's up for you to decide. If you think that every war we have ever been in was justified, and you are happy with the US government taking your money and your kids and sending them off to fight all over the world then you are obviously happy with us being the World Police. Perhaps it was justified immediately after WWII when the rest of Europe and Asia was devastated, which is why we had the magnanimous Bretton Woods Agreements. I personally believe that arrangement has outlived it's usefulness It would be interesting to see us maintain a strong military as a deterrent to others and stay out of everyone else's business for a change and see how prosperous of a nation we can actually become. Do you typically intervene in stranger's arguments in daily life? Frankie stated that "Without war evil people would rule." I say, "Evil people start wars." My position is the same as the gun argument, "Guns don't kill people. People kill people." We should all defend ourselves, I've stated that multiple times in this thread. That's the problem I have with it. I've never inferred in this thread that anyone turn the other cheek to avoid war. What we get when we get this militaristic death cult that is fostered by the people who get rich off of conflict (Military industrial complex) and their politician cronies, is we create "boogymen" that we feel we need to fight. If we think China and Russia are so bad, why don't we just go ahead and start a war with them now while we believe we are stronger than they are and just get it over with and form a one world government with the United States in charge of the whole thing? Seriously... Because that's what it seems that so many American war hawks are really after.
"When I say ever thing I mean ever thing." - Frankie
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,529 Likes: 48
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,529 Likes: 48 |
[/quote]
I don't believe I have called out the US in this thread, although we are not as pure as the driven snow as some die hard patriots must believe. I try to be a realist and unbiased.
I've studied the history of the US and our CIA and I have my own conclusions, but ultimately that's up for you to decide. If you think that every war we have ever been in was justified, and you are happy with the US government taking your money and your kids and sending them off to fight all over the world then you are obviously happy with us being the World Police. Perhaps it was justified immediately after WWII when the rest of Europe and Asia was devastated, which is why we had the magnanimous Bretton Woods Agreements. I personally believe that arrangement has outlived it's usefulness
It would be interesting to see us maintain a strong military as a deterrent to others and stay out of everyone else's business for a change and see how prosperous of a nation we can actually become.
Do you typically intervene in stranger's arguments in daily life?
Frankie stated that "Without war evil people would rule."
I say, "Evil people start wars." My position is the same as the gun argument, "Guns don't kill people. People kill people." We should all defend ourselves, I've stated that multiple times in this thread.
That's the problem I have with it. I've never inferred in this thread that anyone turn the other cheek to avoid war. What we get when we get this militaristic death cult that is fostered by the people who get rich off of conflict (Military industrial complex) and their politician cronies, is we create "boogymen" that we feel we need to fight.
If we think China and Russia are so bad, why don't we just go ahead and start a war with them now while we believe we are stronger than they are and just get it over with and form a one world government with the United States in charge of the whole thing? Seriously... Because that's what it seems that so many American war hawks are really after.[/quote]
I'm not trying to be a contrarian, but I can't accept your statements. I believe you and I would be more aligned outside of written text.
"Do you typically intervene in stranger's arguments in daily life?" Like the guy running through Walmart stabbing people? yes, I'd most certainly intervene. Would you? If no one helps people when they are in distress, where would we be as a society?
Your statements contradict your claim to being a realist. A realist sees war as inevitable and part of human nature and international politics. That's not what you espouse.
War is a nasty business...our force since Vietnam has been 100% volunteer. People know what they are getting into and are aware that they may not agree with the reasons they are in it. They aren't forced to join.
"then you are obviously happy with us being the World Police" I've fought alongside Canadians, brits, new Zealanders, Dutch, French, afghans, and many other nationalities, yes, I believe we need friends who will cover our back and us theirs. I do not believe in the new mantra that we are the 'world's police'. We look out for other countries and they help look out for us when called upon. Without those alliances, we are much weaker as a nation. Do those nations always foot their fair share? nope, but some assistance / support is better than none.
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,529 Likes: 48
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,529 Likes: 48 |
[/quote]
I don't believe I have called out the US in this thread, although we are not as pure as the driven snow as some die hard patriots must believe. I try to be a realist and unbiased.
I've studied the history of the US and our CIA and I have my own conclusions, but ultimately that's up for you to decide. If you think that every war we have ever been in was justified, and you are happy with the US government taking your money and your kids and sending them off to fight all over the world then you are obviously happy with us being the World Police. Perhaps it was justified immediately after WWII when the rest of Europe and Asia was devastated, which is why we had the magnanimous Bretton Woods Agreements. I personally believe that arrangement has outlived it's usefulness
It would be interesting to see us maintain a strong military as a deterrent to others and stay out of everyone else's business for a change and see how prosperous of a nation we can actually become.
Do you typically intervene in stranger's arguments in daily life?
Frankie stated that "Without war evil people would rule."
I say, "Evil people start wars." My position is the same as the gun argument, "Guns don't kill people. People kill people." We should all defend ourselves, I've stated that multiple times in this thread.
That's the problem I have with it. I've never inferred in this thread that anyone turn the other cheek to avoid war. What we get when we get this militaristic death cult that is fostered by the people who get rich off of conflict (Military industrial complex) and their politician cronies, is we create "boogymen" that we feel we need to fight.
If we think China and Russia are so bad, why don't we just go ahead and start a war with them now while we believe we are stronger than they are and just get it over with and form a one world government with the United States in charge of the whole thing? Seriously... Because that's what it seems that so many American war hawks are really after. I'm not trying to be a contrarian, but I can't accept your statements as fact. I believe you and I would be more aligned outside of written text. "Do you typically intervene in stranger's arguments in daily life?" Like the guy running through Walmart stabbing people? yes, I'd most certainly intervene. Would you? If no one helps people when they are in distress, where would we be as a society? Your statements contradict your claim to being a realist. A realist sees war as inevitable and part of human nature and international politics. That's not what you espouse. War is a nasty business...our force since Vietnam has been 100% volunteer. People know what they are getting into and are aware that they may not agree with the reasons they are in it. They aren't forced to join. "then you are obviously happy with us being the World Police" I've fought alongside Canadians, brits, new Zealanders, Dutch, French, afghans, and many other nationalities, yes, I believe we need friends who will cover our back and us theirs. I do not believe in the new mantra that we are the 'world's police'. We look out for other countries and they help look out for us when called upon. Without those alliances, we are much weaker as a nation. Do those nations always foot their fair share? nope, but some assistance / support is better than none.[/quote]
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 28,327 Likes: 565
a.k.a. Dingle Johnson
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a.k.a. Dingle Johnson
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 28,327 Likes: 565 |
"Do you typically intervene in stranger's arguments in daily life?" Like the guy running through Walmart stabbing people? yes, I'd most certainly intervene. Would you? If no one helps people when they are in distress, where would we be as a society? Seriously... If someone is harming other people in the parking lot at Walmart, I'm coming after them. I knew if I didn't quantify my statement that somebody would make a "straw argument" and take it to the next level which is violence. I'm not making a case against anyone or any country defending themselves. I'm making a case against people starting wars over bullshit. If you really study history you realize that most wars are started over bullshit. Then a lot of people die over it.
The Mexican - American war. The Spanish - American war. Those are at least two that we started, because we wanted their stuff. We got a bunch of land out of those two wars that we wanted. We started the Vietnam war to supposedly stop communism in its tracks. Vietnam became Communist anyway. Now they are our friends, and guess what, they are still Communists. How many of our boys died and were maimed in that one? We overthrew a democratically elected government in Iran, put a total idiot shitbag in power, they overthrew him and became the worldwide pariah they are today and we just had to go bomb them a few weeks ago, because they have been troublemakers ever since we did that crap. US ineptitude in foreign intervention has caused more problems than it has solved, and if we want to be the "Bright Shining Beacon of Hope" in the World that we claim to be, we need to start acting like it. And it certainly seems like under the DJT administration we are trying to do just that... Get out of foreign entanglements, and I'm happy about that trend.
Last edited by Irishguy; 08/21/25 11:17 AM.
"When I say ever thing I mean ever thing." - Frankie
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 18,338 Likes: 87
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 18,338 Likes: 87 |
Yeah ,,,, but with out them (war) evil would rule I sure do hate to agree with this, but I'm afraid that I must. We live in a fallen world in which each and every one of us are sinners. We can make a choice to change ourselves and try to influence our little corner of the world, but that doesn't mean that our brother or our neighbor is going to do the same. It's just in men's hearts to make war, steal, rape, lie, covet, etc. There is even a war in heaven since Satan decided that he should be worshipped like the Father and Son. Unfortunately, he has quite a following, and many of his followers are in a position of power. Heaven isn't exempt from war so why would we think that earth could be. You are both confusing having and maintaining a strong military with going out and actively making war against someone else. True good guys don't make war against other people for vanity or profit. The true good guys only go to war to defend their people or their property. No, I most certainly am not. I'm stating that you simply cannot keep evil at bay with anything other than force (war perhaps) at times. Doesn't mean every time, but it does mean that it's necessary sometimes. Even the Almighty God does it. At times, simply put, might makes right. It's not looking for trouble.
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 28,327 Likes: 565
a.k.a. Dingle Johnson
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a.k.a. Dingle Johnson
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 28,327 Likes: 565 |
Yeah ,,,, but with out them (war) evil would rule I sure do hate to agree with this, but I'm afraid that I must. We live in a fallen world in which each and every one of us are sinners. We can make a choice to change ourselves and try to influence our little corner of the world, but that doesn't mean that our brother or our neighbor is going to do the same. It's just in men's hearts to make war, steal, rape, lie, covet, etc. There is even a war in heaven since Satan decided that he should be worshipped like the Father and Son. Unfortunately, he has quite a following, and many of his followers are in a position of power. Heaven isn't exempt from war so why would we think that earth could be. You are both confusing having and maintaining a strong military with going out and actively making war against someone else. True good guys don't make war against other people for vanity or profit. The true good guys only go to war to defend their people or their property. No, I most certainly am not. I'm stating that you simply cannot keep evil at bay with anything other than force (war perhaps) at times. Doesn't mean every time, but it does mean that it's necessary sometimes. Even the Almighty God does it. At times, simply put, might makes right. It's not looking for trouble. I don't believe your statement disagrees with the last sentence of my last statement above. I am all for a strong military as a deterrent force. I am all for helping people (countries) that are truly in need of it. What I am against is wars that are started for specious reasons and then millions of people die, when something could have been worked out.
Last edited by Irishguy; 08/21/25 01:34 PM.
"When I say ever thing I mean ever thing." - Frankie
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 18,338 Likes: 87
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 18,338 Likes: 87 |
You are both confusing having and maintaining a strong military with going out and actively making war against someone else.
True good guys don't make war against other people for vanity or profit. The true good guys only go to war to defend their people or their property. No, I most certainly am not. I'm stating that you simply cannot keep evil at bay with anything other than force (war perhaps) at times. Doesn't mean every time, but it does mean that it's necessary sometimes. Even the Almighty God does it. At times, simply put, might makes right. It's not looking for trouble. I don't believe your statement disagrees with the last sentence of my last statement above. I am all for a strong military as a deterrent force. I am all for helping people (countries) that are truly in need of it. What I am against is wars that are started for specious reasons and then millions of people die, when something could have been worked out. And I can agree with both of those paragraphs. And I do agree with your last statement prior to that. I only took exception to the statement involving my confusion. I think that we both agree that any wars involving the US of A should only be as a necessity to defend our country, our way of life. There may be other circumstances that would merit going to war, but it would have to be something extreme.
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 28,327 Likes: 565
a.k.a. Dingle Johnson
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a.k.a. Dingle Johnson
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 28,327 Likes: 565 |
You are both confusing having and maintaining a strong military with going out and actively making war against someone else.
True good guys don't make war against other people for vanity or profit. The true good guys only go to war to defend their people or their property. No, I most certainly am not. I'm stating that you simply cannot keep evil at bay with anything other than force (war perhaps) at times. Doesn't mean every time, but it does mean that it's necessary sometimes. Even the Almighty God does it. At times, simply put, might makes right. It's not looking for trouble. I don't believe your statement disagrees with the last sentence of my last statement above. I am all for a strong military as a deterrent force. I am all for helping people (countries) that are truly in need of it. What I am against is wars that are started for specious reasons and then millions of people die, when something could have been worked out. And I can agree with both of those paragraphs. And I do agree with your last statement prior to that. I only took exception to the statement involving my confusion. I think that we both agree that any wars involving the US of A should only be as a necessity to defend our country, our way of life. There may be other circumstances that would merit going to war, but it would have to be something extreme. Agree. Thanks for posting.
"When I say ever thing I mean ever thing." - Frankie
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