Aldeer.com Forums Alabama Deer Talk Aldeer General Forum Trump v Zelensky

There doesn't have to be Standing for America vs Standing for Ukraine. Personally, I absolutely do both. It is certainly in our best interest that Putin and his aggression be stopped in its tracks before he decides to make any more moves to rebuild the former Soviet Union and make no mistake that is his goal which he has repeatedly said. He is an evil man and an enemy to freedom and to the U.S. and Trump knows this and is trying diplomacy to bring peace to the region while looking after our interests at the same time through a Rare Earth Metals agreement but I'm not sure that Z wants peace as he seems to be enjoying his time in the limelight. Ukraine has had problems with corruption certainly and any aid we give them should come with the proviso of full accounting for it. Global politics are usually a very complex issue and this is no exception so this is a very short response on my part instead of the complete story which would be more than I have time to type out.

I have never argued with you here, and I hope you remember that. I am quoting your post as a lead-in.

There are more tendrils to this situation than a neglected muscadine vine, but I will attempt to simplify.

"The Ukraine" roughly translates to "The Borderland". Whose border? Russia, of course. That area was Russian territory before the USSR. Brezhnev was born in The Ukraine, and Gorbachev was of Ukrainian heritage. As a country, Ukraine didn't exist before 1991. It was a Russian territory, and had been since the 1800's. It had never been a separate state or country prior to then, but was briefly it's own country for about 5 years immediately after WW1, then joined the USSR.

In fact, from about 1400 or so, the area was contested, divided, and ruled by a variety of external powers including the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, the Kingdom of Poland, the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth, the Austrian Empire, the Ottoman Empire, and the Tsardom of Russia.

The US, Great Britain, France, and others committed to Russia around 1990 that NATO would NOT "move 1 inch closer to Russia". Then they did it anyway, by about 1000 miles, then threatened or actually installed missiles near the border. For reference, see "Cuban Missile Crisis".

Ukraine received foreign funding and weapons from NATO countries. Those same countries encouraged Ukraine to move forward with "donated" weapons and push against Russia. The premise was that it was "illegal" to speak Russian in Donbas. Starting in 2014, the Ukrainian government started a civil war to "punish" those who continued to speak Russian, even though that was the only language that they knew. This genocide continued on a low scale until Putin (and the world, but most others were in on it) became aware that thousands of Ukrainian troops were moving to Donbas to "end the uprising" by those who refused/couldn't speak Ukrainian. At that point, the ethnic Russians who occupied Donbas asked for help, and Putin sent troops to stop the genocide that had been occurring since 2014.

This brings us to the latest war for the best farmland in Eastern Europe.

Please know, that just because I know the history and the facts, does NOT mean that I believe that the USA has ANY business being involved in this bullshit. As far as I'm concerned, we need to make a trade deal with whoever wins and become more isolationist in our policies.

By that, I mean not one single dollar leaves our shores as "aid" until every US child is fed, every US veteran is housed and safe, and every needy (read unable to provide for themselves, not unwilling to do the same) US citizen is safe, housed, and fed.

Deport every illegal, and mandate a 20 year waiting period for entry for any individual who came in without permission. Absolutely admit more workers to fill jobs that were vacated, while eliminating welfare and food stamps/SNAP/EBT for any citizen unwilling to work. If you can't find a job, your county can issue you a trash grabber and a box of bags every morning.

I worked my entire life, and work continues to find me even in retirement. Shouldn't be that hard for these leaches to figure out how to be productive.

I went off topic a bit at the end, but I do hope this helps someone who didn't know the history of the region.

I have never argued with you here, and I hope you remember that. I am quoting your post as a lead-in.

There are more tendrils to this situation than a neglected muscadine vine, but I will attempt to simplify.

"The Ukraine" roughly translates to "The Borderland". Whose border? Russia, of course. That area was Russian territory before the USSR. Brezhnev was born in The Ukraine, and Gorbachev was of Ukrainian heritage. As a country, Ukraine didn't exist before 1991. It was a Russian territory, and had been since the 1800's. It had never been a separate state or country prior to then, but was briefly it's own country for about 5 years immediately after WW1, then joined the USSR.

In fact, from about 1400 or so, the area was contested, divided, and ruled by a variety of external powers including the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, the Kingdom of Poland, the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth, the Austrian Empire, the Ottoman Empire, and the Tsardom of Russia.

The US, Great Britain, France, and others committed to Russia around 1990 that NATO would NOT "move 1 inch closer to Russia". Then they did it anyway, by about 1000 miles, then threatened or actually installed missiles near the border. For reference, see "Cuban Missile Crisis".

Ukraine received foreign funding and weapons from NATO countries. Those same countries encouraged Ukraine to move forward with "donated" weapons and push against Russia. The premise was that it was "illegal" to speak Russian in Donbas. Starting in 2014, the Ukrainian government started a civil war to "punish" those who continued to speak Russian, even though that was the only language that they knew. This genocide continued on a low scale until Putin (and the world, but most others were in on it) became aware that thousands of Ukrainian troops were moving to Donbas to "end the uprising" by those who refused/couldn't speak Ukrainian. At that point, the ethnic Russians who occupied Donbas asked for help, and Putin sent troops to stop the genocide that had been occurring since 2014.

This brings us to the latest war for the best farmland in Eastern Europe.

Please know, that just because I know the history and the facts, does NOT mean that I believe that the USA has ANY business being involved in this bullshit. As far as I'm concerned, we need to make a trade deal with whoever wins and become more isolationist in our policies.

By that, I mean not one single dollar leaves our shores as "aid" until every US child is fed, every US veteran is housed and safe, and every needy (read unable to provide for themselves, not unwilling to do the same) US citizen is safe, housed, and fed.

Deport every illegal, and mandate a 20 year waiting period for entry for any individual who came in without permission. Absolutely admit more workers to fill jobs that were vacated, while eliminating welfare and food stamps/SNAP/EBT for any citizen unwilling to work. If you can't find a job, your county can issue you a trash grabber and a box of bags every morning.

I worked my entire life, and work continues to find me even in retirement. Shouldn't be that hard for these leaches to figure out how to be productive.

I went off topic a bit at the end, but I do hope this helps someone who didn't know the history of the region.

I don't mind giving money to Ukraine to help defeat Putin as I believe it is imperative that he be stopped now because if he succeeds he will move on and won't stop until he rebuilds the old Soviet Empire. I truly don't think the thought of WWIII is a deterrent to him.l also agree wholeheartedly that since Europe has more to lose than we do, they should bear the brunt of financing the Z and Putin war.

Are you saying you don't mind giving Ukraine more money???.... Do you not think we've gave them enough already???

I have never argued with you here, and I hope you remember that. I am quoting your post as a lead-in.

There are more tendrils to this situation than a neglected muscadine vine, but I will attempt to simplify.

"The Ukraine" roughly translates to "The Borderland". Whose border? Russia, of course. That area was Russian territory before the USSR. Brezhnev was born in The Ukraine, and Gorbachev was of Ukrainian heritage. As a country, Ukraine didn't exist before 1991. It was a Russian territory, and had been since the 1800's. It had never been a separate state or country prior to then, but was briefly it's own country for about 5 years immediately after WW1, then joined the USSR.

In fact, from about 1400 or so, the area was contested, divided, and ruled by a variety of external powers including the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, the Kingdom of Poland, the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth, the Austrian Empire, the Ottoman Empire, and the Tsardom of Russia.

The US, Great Britain, France, and others committed to Russia around 1990 that NATO would NOT "move 1 inch closer to Russia". Then they did it anyway, by about 1000 miles, then threatened or actually installed missiles near the border. For reference, see "Cuban Missile Crisis".

Ukraine received foreign funding and weapons from NATO countries. Those same countries encouraged Ukraine to move forward with "donated" weapons and push against Russia. The premise was that it was "illegal" to speak Russian in Donbas. Starting in 2014, the Ukrainian government started a civil war to "punish" those who continued to speak Russian, even though that was the only language that they knew. This genocide continued on a low scale until Putin (and the world, but most others were in on it) became aware that thousands of Ukrainian troops were moving to Donbas to "end the uprising" by those who refused/couldn't speak Ukrainian. At that point, the ethnic Russians who occupied Donbas asked for help, and Putin sent troops to stop the genocide that had been occurring since 2014.

This brings us to the latest war for the best farmland in Eastern Europe.

Please know, that just because I know the history and the facts, does NOT mean that I believe that the USA has ANY business being involved in this bullshit. As far as I'm concerned, we need to make a trade deal with whoever wins and become more isolationist in our policies.

By that, I mean not one single dollar leaves our shores as "aid" until every US child is fed, every US veteran is housed and safe, and every needy (read unable to provide for themselves, not unwilling to do the same) US citizen is safe, housed, and fed.

Deport every illegal, and mandate a 20 year waiting period for entry for any individual who came in without permission. Absolutely admit more workers to fill jobs that were vacated, while eliminating welfare and food stamps/SNAP/EBT for any citizen unwilling to work. If you can't find a job, your county can issue you a trash grabber and a box of bags every morning.

I worked my entire life, and work continues to find me even in retirement. Shouldn't be that hard for these leaches to figure out how to be productive.

I went off topic a bit at the end, but I do hope this helps someone who didn't know the history of the region.

I’ll chime in here.

Problem is we’ve been leading an effort that we should have had minimal, if any, involvement in.
Europe should have been leading any/all efforts for Ukrainian defense if it deemed it was necessary.

Ukraine was, and still is, a sovereign state. It should never have been invaded. Anyone who disagrees with that isn’t pro-peace.

We just can’t keep funding a war with no end in sight. Ukraine is steadily losing ground and there’s no sense in dumping our money & having them waste their lives for the inevitable. If they don’t want to sign a mineral deal to at least give us some skin in the game for their success, then we don’t have much reason to be involved anymore. I hate it for them, but It’s where we’re at today. We’ve been giving them enough aid to keep them alive and prolong the war but not enough to actually win. We lack foresight as a nation.

Is this all cherry picked or 100% fact. I’m finding evidence otherwise of all of this being so. It does have a nice narrative to it
Mexico is a borderland to America

https://youtu.be/6p4CWUtAxls?si=qYmrwk_J1U_-P2DU

The 20th century began with a renewed struggle for Ukrainian statehood. Following the collapse of empires during World War I, the Ukrainian People’s Republic (UPR) was proclaimed in 1917 with Kyiv as its capital. Meanwhile, in the western territories, the West Ukrainian People’s Republic (WUPR) was established in 1918, centered in Lviv. Both republics sought to unite, forming the Unification Act (Act Zluky) on 22 January 1919.[14] However, their independence was short-lived. The UPR faced constant military conflict with Bolshevik forces, Poland, and White Army factions. By 1921, following the Soviet-Ukrainian War, Ukrainian lands were divided: the eastern territories became the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic (part of the USSR), while western Ukraine was absorbed by Poland, Romania, and Czechoslovakia.[13]: 537 

I'll agree with everything said here. Zelenskyy had the opportunity for peace and decided against it for whatever reason. Now Trump wants to cut the aid to him which is the right decision. If the people of Ukraine want peace then apparently Z has got to go.