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62 members (Mjh97, Vernon Tull, quailman, aubarner, Safetyman, CAM, WINMAG300, MTeague, jacannon, Mdees, dagwood, Ray_Coon, phinfan, TurkeyJoe, oakachoy, geeb1, UncleHuck, Skinner, DonH, COOTER, odocoileus, leroyb, XVIII, rblaker, JAT, Mike59, BhamFred, Solothurn, cullbuck, Frankie, cartervj, Birdman83, Fishduck, hippi, twaldrop4, CNC, doublefistful, curt99rsv, Bruno, akbejeepin, 3Gs, Sixpointholler, JLMiller, johnv, 3006bullet, top cat, Johnal3, 7PTSPREAD, BigA47, AU coonhunter, oldbowhunter, BCLC, GrandSlam, jmj120, 380jeff, 7 invisible),
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Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 24,913
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 24,913 |
Is it that you are challenging his position or just being an ass trying to pick a fight? It comes across as the second
Yep
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 342
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 342 |
OK, I usually stay out of these discussions but, just a thought…I’m not totally convinced our longer season is the demise of having quality deer. In some ways or perhaps with some hunters the longer season can actually lead to them being more selective because they know they have more opportunity/days to hunt. I think the same can in some instances apply to the use of cameras, i.e. getting a pic of a really mature deer will lead to holding out for that deer.
Not convinced this theory is accurate for all but I can say I know several folks that think this way.
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,768
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,768 |
Man you know how to put words in someone’s mouth. I’ve never said they should not be legal. I use them all the time. Expressing concerns over their use is apparently childish and crybabyish according to some. I’m simply stating what is occurring on the landscape. It’s obvious some ppl don’t have enough maturity to have a conversation OR their greed is more important than the resource. Sorry I’ve stuck a nerve with you. I honestly don’t give a rip. I follow my convictions and science over people’s feelings. I guess I’ll say whatever I want and you can interpret it however you choose.
I have said and will stand by my convictions that the combination of long seasons, land ownership patterns, bait and cell cams will NOT result in a healthy deer herd over time, and I’ll be right in the long run. You can think whatever you want to.
In the meantime, those who have money are going to keep buying more land and putting up more fences. As they do that nobody better say a dang word about it because that’s exactly what’s going to happen. The management decisions this state has made over the last decade are not in the best interest of the resource. Period. It’s about money. You have said in the past cell cams should not be legal, and that is the implication here. Don't call me a childish greedy crybaby, all I did was point out how you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. You're a great biologist(I think most would agree the BEST there is) and I really enjoy your posts and pod casts about deer. It is very informative and you've forgotten more about deer herds than most people will ever learn in a lifetime but apparently you can't take a mild challenge to your stance on one particular issue? There's not a professional in any field who doesn't get challenged on their stances on various issues, hell there's second opinions involved with doctors. Damn. Who's the real cry baby? Are you sure you’re not confusing my statements about them being prohibited in some areas with your idea that I’ve stated they should be? I don’t recall saying my opinion is they should be made illegal. I have clearly stated if they were made illegal I wouldn’t have any heart burn over it. I do find it quite ironic the state has limited hunting opportunities on hundreds of thousands of acres. Hunters can only go on select days. They don’t allow bait on these areas. They don’t allow cell cameras in turkey season. All of this is for resource conservation. Yet on the private hunting lands around these areas all of those things are legal and extended way past the dates on the WMAs. You don’t find that slightly odd? They obviously know what they’re allowing is not good for the resource. It’s ok for a 10 acre landowner to have over 100 days to kill a deer with a cell cameras and bait, but it’s not ok on a 90,000 acre area. Lets give them 22 days to hunt and limit how they can do it. Yeah it is odd I dont disagree with that.....then make bait illegal if you want to I guess. Baiting was illegal for a very long time. If your stank with it is the cell cam x bait combo
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,768
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,768 |
Is it that you are challenging his position or just being an ass trying to pick a fight? It comes across as the second
Yep I dont think you can discern tone in the written word here. I wasn't being malicious. Hell I just gave him a buncha compliments about how good of a biologist he is.
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 9,465 Likes: 1
Fancy
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Fancy
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 9,465 Likes: 1 |
Is it that you are challenging his position or just being an ass trying to pick a fight? It comes across as the second
Yep I dont think you can discern tone in the written word here. I wasn't being malicious. Hell I just gave him a buncha compliments about how good of a biologist he is. Look I’m fine. I’m not worried about it either. I am passionate about it because I’ve made a career out of it. I do it for the resource and when I see a red flag I’m known to pick it up and wave it.
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,768
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,768 |
Is it that you are challenging his position or just being an ass trying to pick a fight? It comes across as the second
Yep I dont think you can discern tone in the written word here. I wasn't being malicious. Hell I just gave him a buncha compliments about how good of a biologist he is. Look I’m fine. I’m not worried about it either. I am passionate about it because I’ve made a career out of it. I do it for the resource and when I see a red flag I’m known to pick it up and wave it. I never argued that the corn x cell cam combo + property ownership dynamics were bad for the population as a whole by the way. Makes total sense to me. People just don't understand the far reaching ramifications of making something(anything) illegal
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 18,162
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 18,162 |
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Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,041
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,041 |
Is it that you are challenging his position or just being an ass trying to pick a fight? It comes across as the second
Yep I dont think you can discern tone in the written word here. I wasn't being malicious. Hell I just gave him a buncha compliments about how good of a biologist he is. That is why I said it the way I did. Sometimes typing with thumbs can lead to short and often none intended tone. I know I've done it several times on here that I had not intended to be interpreted as the way it came across. Just thought a third party might chime in in case you weren't trying to go the scorched earth route.
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 18,162
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 18,162 |
Matt , I know this , back when they were saying the ratio was 1 to 10 or 1 to 15 I saw a hell of a lot of big bucks killed. I'm talking bucks that dressed out 160 to 180 a few over that now most think that's big for live weight . Sorry I just fallow the 1 to 1 or the 1 to 2 thing . Now if bucks are so stressed out by having so many does why was the past so great .
Funny back when they started QDM I never heard a thing about stress it was better rut , better rut , more intense rut , shorter rut period.
By no means am I implying the bucks aint stressed . I just dont understand whats the difference from what is to what was . Stress was definitely mentioned a lot. Rutting is stressful on a buck. I wonder what percentage die for the stress of rutting Marty Stouffer had a series about a buck that died immediately after breeding took its toll Here's the problems she baseing that on one deer . Each year around the places i hunted the bucks had recovered good . Even killed late in the season they a had lot of fat on them . All my years of hunting I can count the poor or sick deer on one hand . I've only pick up two racks that i dont know why they died . Even on here you see just a couple here and there of racks found in the woods . Sorry I just go with this about stress killing all these deer from over breeding Matt gave me a good reply and info but I fully dont agree with it . From what I've seen dont make me right either .
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 9,465 Likes: 1
Fancy
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Fancy
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 9,465 Likes: 1 |
Another wrench I’ll throw in is that deer can not be in optimum physical condition even though they appear to be. I know that makes zero sense, but it’s true. 😂
You can always improve habitat condition and increase fitness of deer. In poor habitat I’ve seen 150 lb bucks look healthy. They’re obviously not given their suppressed body and antler growth, but if you investigate their body fat they appear healthy.
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 18,162
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 18,162 |
Another wrench I’ll throw in is that deer can not be in optimum physical condition even though they appear to be. I know that makes zero sense, but it’s true. 😂
You can always improve habitat condition and increase fitness of deer. In poor habitat I’ve seen 150 lb bucks look healthy. They’re obviously not given their suppressed body and antler growth, but if you investigate their body fat they appear healthy. I was going by looks . I started using cams back when they used 35mm flim and I watched them grow for years with a horrible buck doe ratio. Stress is something I can't see
Last edited by Frankie; 01/20/25 02:56 PM.
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Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,874
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,874 |
just a few years ago yall bitch about not hunting the rut , they extended the season now yall bitch about it being to long . yall bitch about corn not being legal so they changed it now yall bitch that ever body with a acre of land is baiting . yall was fine with the game check that really does nothing but count dead deer but now you want tags that will do the same thing but cost each hunter more .
tell you what go by the deer processer near you and just ask ,,,, you getting in any good deer in ? when he say yeah ,,,,, think about it . maybe just maybe you need to learn how to hunt .
Now that’s a mouthful . Agree 100% . Plenty big deer killed. Some folks just like to bitch if they don’t see or kill a world class buck every yr. They are out there . They too smart for most of us or they wouldn’t be a MATURE buck.
Brushwacker
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 24,913
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 24,913 |
I would imagine that coyotes take them out before they actually have a chance to die from the stress itself......
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 18,162
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 18,162 |
I would imagine that coyotes take them out before they actually have a chance to die from the stress itself...... I dont see what you can base that on
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Joined: Sep 2023
Posts: 164
3 point
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3 point
Joined: Sep 2023
Posts: 164 |
I would imagine that coyotes take them out before they actually have a chance to die from the stress itself...... I dont see what you can base that on It’s a logical statement. Just like CWD, stress would be the facilitator to another primary cause of death.
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 24,913
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 24,913 |
I see them get after deer hunters have shot and crippled all the time……They test and take out the weak……they actively seek it out too….it doesn’t matter if it’s a bullet or getting gored by another buck….or getting hit by a car…….……whatever slows them down makes them a target just the same……..If a deer is going to get so weak from some type of stress that the stress is going to kill it…..the coyotes are going to get it when the stress slows it down enough that he cant get away…..He’ll likely never actually lay there and die of the stress itself
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 18,162
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 18,162 |
I ain't buying it , where are all of these skulls going
CWD is a new thing here , now blue tounge has wipe out more bucks here in one year than any thing .
Last edited by Frankie; 01/20/25 09:26 PM.
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 24,913
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 24,913 |
Last edited by CNC; 01/20/25 09:37 PM.
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Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 642
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 642 |
Why is the state not doing anything meaningful to curb the population explosion of coyotes in Alabama?
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 18,162
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 18,162 |
CNC you been tracking and hunting for how years . you got one example? What time of year did you find that buck ?
If it died from stress shouldn't the antlers be already fell off ?
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