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Key:
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 29,100 Likes: 86
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 29,100 Likes: 86 |
I agree Matt. I think cell cams and corn are getting more mature bucks killed because people are holding out for specific bucks thus killing more of the most mature deer.
A 35-40% increase in buck harvest does not point toward "more people holding out"
Folks that know don't shoot old does........ 
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,197 Likes: 49
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,197 Likes: 49 |
I see what you’re saying. Most of the guys I know have held out for a few specific deer (older age) and now they don’t seem to have the older deer that they used too. Lots of 3-4 year olds but less 5+. Most of these guys have small tracts as well if that matters.
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,197 Likes: 49
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,197 Likes: 49 |
I agree Matt. I think cell cams and corn are getting more mature bucks killed because people are holding out for specific bucks thus killing more of the most mature deer.
A 35-40% increase in buck harvest does not point toward "more people holding out" I don’t trust any numbers put out by any gov agency. Especially if they are getting numbers from game check.
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 29,100 Likes: 86
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 29,100 Likes: 86 |
I agree Matt. I think cell cams and corn are getting more mature bucks killed because people are holding out for specific bucks thus killing more of the most mature deer.
A 35-40% increase in buck harvest does not point toward "more people holding out" I don’t trust any numbers put out by any gov agency. Especially if they are getting numbers from game check. I’m sure your “belief” that bucks are being saved is much more accurate.
Folks that know don't shoot old does........
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,197 Likes: 49
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,197 Likes: 49 |
Never said I felt like bucks were being saved. I honestly don’t think much has changed from the days of shooting 1 buck per day. I’ve definitely not seen major improvements. I said most of the people that I associate with only shoot the top 1 or 2 deer they have on their individual places and I don’t see any improvement in their success year in and year out.
Last edited by twaldrop4; 08/28/23 09:04 PM.
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Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 330
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 330 |
Devils advocate but what if those younger bucks got the other people on the other land excited. What if that was a trophy to them. What if that’s the biggest deer they ever saw. What if they enjoy hunting for something other than an age class/ horn measurement. Are they wrong and should they be regulated I say no. I am very much in favor of people hunting how they want to and not being mandated into a state regulated trophy management mindset. The cell cam and corn combination has made it very easy to kill deer. There’s less deer making it into the older age classes because of it. I am very much anti-government so the way I feel about it and the way I often phrase my thoughts regarding any potential regulation is "Education is more effective than legislation". Buck harvest is definitely trending towards an average age higher than in times passed, largely because of all the education that has been put out over the years through groups such as the QDMA (NDA). In the meantime, I'm just saying that it's very frustrating when we put so much time, effort, and money into growing an impressive upper age class of bucks and the neighbors are just shooting them as babies over a corn pile and cell cam.
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,197 Likes: 49
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,197 Likes: 49 |
Devils advocate but what if those younger bucks got the other people on the other land excited. What if that was a trophy to them. What if that’s the biggest deer they ever saw. What if they enjoy hunting for something other than an age class/ horn measurement. Are they wrong and should they be regulated I say no. I am very much in favor of people hunting how they want to and not being mandated into a state regulated trophy management mindset. The cell cam and corn combination has made it very easy to kill deer. There’s less deer making it into the older age classes because of it. I am very much anti-government so the way I feel about it and the way I often phrase my thoughts regarding any potential regulation is "Education is more effective than legislation". Buck harvest is definitely trending towards an average age higher than in times passed, largely because of all the education that has been put out over the years through groups such as the QDMA (NDA). In the meantime, I'm just saying that it's very frustrating when we put so much time, effort, and money into growing an impressive upper age class of bucks and the neighbors are just shooting them as babies over a corn pile and cell cam. Believe man. We agree on most things you’ve posted. I was just playing devils advocate. It sucks to put a bunch of time in a buck with potential that somebody else shoots. But I’ve come to realize it’s not my deer till I put my hands on it.
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Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 330
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 330 |
Afraid i gone be frustrated to SEWoods
One of my good friends in Choctaw county raised a stud - at 4 he was mid to high130s easy w split brows. He asked everyone to let it walk - he was a great deer - neighbor killed him over corn pile
I will hav to get lucky to kill a mounter amd corn has gotten so expensive
May need to rethink and go pay $$ to go to iowa every year for 5 days - seriously Last impressive buck that was killed on our place was a good looking 4-year-old 8 point likely in the low to mid 120s. We didn't see him as a four-year-old, but it was agreed upon that he would get a pass assuming somebody did see him. He was killed as a 5-year-old in the upper 140's or low 150's, I can't remember exactly.
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,197 Likes: 49
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,197 Likes: 49 |
Sometimes I think more quality deer were killed when dog hunting was legal. And I’m not talking about deer the dogs ran. We hunted a small place in the middle of several big dog clubs and there were some big big deer that got killed a day or so after a big drive.
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Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 330
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 330 |
Devils advocate but what if those younger bucks got the other people on the other land excited. What if that was a trophy to them. What if that’s the biggest deer they ever saw. What if they enjoy hunting for something other than an age class/ horn measurement. Are they wrong and should they be regulated I say no. I am very much in favor of people hunting how they want to and not being mandated into a state regulated trophy management mindset. The cell cam and corn combination has made it very easy to kill deer. There’s less deer making it into the older age classes because of it. I am very much anti-government so the way I feel about it and the way I often phrase my thoughts regarding any potential regulation is "Education is more effective than legislation". Buck harvest is definitely trending towards an average age higher than in times past, largely because of all the education that has been put out over the years through groups such as the QDMA (NDA). In the meantime, I'm just saying that it's very frustrating when we put so much time, effort, and money into growing an impressive upper age class of bucks and the neighbors are just shooting them as babies over a corn pile and cell cam. Believe man. We agree on most things you’ve posted. I was just playing devils advocate. It sucks to put a bunch of time in a buck with potential that somebody else shoots. But I’ve come to realize it’s not my deer till I put my hands on it. I understand completely. The neighbors are good guys and we're on good terms by all means. I'm not going to ruin a relationship over a pine goat no matter how frustrating it gets sometimes. With my above thoughts on regulation, I'm not necessarily a proponent of strict regulation like some states have, but I will recognize that a select few changes could make a world of difference for making Alabama a better state for producing impressive bucks. I'm not advocating for them, but at the same time I wouldn't be complaining if they shortened rifle season and tightened down on the antlered deer regulations.
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 10,974 Likes: 190
Fancy
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Fancy
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 10,974 Likes: 190 |
Sometimes I think more quality deer were killed when dog hunting was legal. And I’m not talking about deer the dogs ran. We hunted a small place in the middle of several big dog clubs and there were some big big deer that got killed a day or so after a big drive. Of course there were. When killing deer was a random occurrence instead of a targeted assassination like it is today, more bucks reached older age classes, and some of them were super stars. Most ALL of the BIG bucks killed 20-50 years ago were 6-8 years old. We had higher scoring deer before game cameras. Now every 3-4 year old is a target on someone’s camera, if not on multiple cameras over multiple properties. There’s no chance for deer to live old enough to hit 150”+. I know of places that could eliminate 90+% of any age class of buck if they wanted to do it. They’re not hard to kill. The only deer making it to 4-5 or older are the ones we, as hunters, allow to live. Hardly no one is passing deer that could be really great deer at 6-7. The bucks that are living to be that age are ones nobody wants to waste a spot on their harvest record.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 39,957 Likes: 130
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 39,957 Likes: 130 |
"Why do you ask"?
Too many people spend money they don't have , on things they don't need, to impress people they don't know.
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Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 330
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 330 |
Sometimes I think more quality deer were killed when dog hunting was legal. And I’m not talking about deer the dogs ran. We hunted a small place in the middle of several big dog clubs and there were some big big deer that got killed a day or so after a big drive. Of course there were. When killing deer was a random occurrence instead of a targeted assassination like it is today, more bucks reached older age classes, and some of them were super stars. Most ALL of the BIG bucks killed 20-50 years ago were 6-8 years old. We had higher scoring deer before game cameras. Now every 3-4 year old is a target on someone’s camera, if not on multiple cameras over multiple properties. There’s no chance for deer to live old enough to hit 150”+. I know of places that could eliminate 90+% of any age class of buck if they wanted to do it. They’re not hard to kill. The only deer making it to 4-5 or older are the ones we, as hunters, allow to live. Hardly no one is passing deer that could be really great deer at 6-7. The bucks that are living to be that age are ones nobody wants to waste a spot on their harvest record. Agreed.
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 5,373 Likes: 49
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 5,373 Likes: 49 |
Disclaimer - I know genetics, forage, and natural minerals make a huge differrence.
Texas has been slinging corn for decades, and I have seen more good deer in a single hunt in Texas than a typical year in Alabama
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 29,100 Likes: 86
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 29,100 Likes: 86 |
Sometimes I think more quality deer were killed when dog hunting was legal. And I’m not talking about deer the dogs ran. We hunted a small place in the middle of several big dog clubs and there were some big big deer that got killed a day or so after a big drive. Of course there were. When killing deer was a random occurrence instead of a targeted assassination like it is today, more bucks reached older age classes, and some of them were super stars. Most ALL of the BIG bucks killed 20-50 years ago were 6-8 years old. We had higher scoring deer before game cameras. Now every 3-4 year old is a target on someone’s camera, if not on multiple cameras over multiple properties. There’s no chance for deer to live old enough to hit 150”+. I know of places that could eliminate 90+% of any age class of buck if they wanted to do it. They’re not hard to kill. The only deer making it to 4-5 or older are the ones we, as hunters, allow to live. Hardly no one is passing deer that could be really great deer at 6-7. The bucks that are living to be that age are ones nobody wants to waste a spot on their harvest record. Agreed. Yep
Folks that know don't shoot old does........
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 3,536 Likes: 1
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 3,536 Likes: 1 |
The new age corn and cell camera combo? Personally, it's very frustrating to me, especially when the neighbors use this very strategy to shoot the 2-year-old 120" 11 point you beg them not to shoot. Also, the impressive 4-year-old that was passed multiple times.
Seems to me like this is gonna be the newfangled way that all the young bucks with the most potential start dying at record highs. Corn was all over before they legalized it. It was amazing how much feed we spotted flying all over MS and AL in the helo before it became legal It's not so much the corn that bothers me. I mean, if it's your private property, I'm going to ere on the side of freedom and private property rights. It just frustrates me that every John Doe in Alabama can do absolutely nothing other than fill their corn feeder up, sit at home watching TV, and wait until he gets an instant notification of a promising young buck at the feeder behind the house and shoot it out his back window. Fair chase has gotta come into play at some point, but I don't know how you can balance it all out and I know the GWs are gonna have an impossible time enforcing any change to what most feel entitled to now that it's been legal for a couple years. I love the fair chase argument lol. We have a 3 month long gun season, Archery equipment is a lot more advanced than it was 10 years ago. We use scent killer sprays, Doe estrus, Buck Urine and other scents to try and attract deer/ eliminate human scent. We all use camouflage, blinds, and Tree stands to hide from deer. We use calls to sound like deer to attract them. We plant food plots and fruit trees to try and attract deer. All of that is considered fair chase but cell cameras and corn is where we draw the line and only corn that comes from a bag, if you plant the corn yourself that’s fair chase. Be careful with the fair chase argument. Just hunt how you want to and let others hunt how they want, it really is that simple.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,416 Likes: 16
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,416 Likes: 16 |
I see better and more bucks now than I ever did back in the “good ol’ days.” The hunting just seems to keep getting better every year.
83% of all statistics are made up.
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 9,111 Likes: 35
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 9,111 Likes: 35 |
"I dont quit.. And ill fight alone if i have to"
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Joined: Oct 2022
Posts: 4,068 Likes: 68
Management Spike
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Management Spike
Joined: Oct 2022
Posts: 4,068 Likes: 68 |
At least the state is making more money...
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 29,100 Likes: 86
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 29,100 Likes: 86 |
It aint hard to pick out Chuck's buddies on here.
Folks that know don't shoot old does........
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