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Joined: Jan 2012
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Booner
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Booner
Joined: Jan 2012
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CNC you are one of a kind that’s for sure! You are way over complicating this. There is no donor deciding turkey regulations. The DCNR is trying to help the turkeys and figure the problem. They are just doing a bad job of it.
They didn’t make decoys illegal because they didn’t think it would help. But I guess you are going to say that they didn’t make decoys illegal because the turkey decoy manufacturers donated money to Ivey and she wouldn’t let him make them illegal? Or is their another conspiracy theory on the deep state turkey regulation controllers? I believe by not allowing them the first 10 days shows they know full well the impact.
"The Heavens declare the glory of God;and the firmament sheweth his handiwork" Pslam 19:1
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14 point
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14 point
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 6,747 Likes: 1 |
CNC you are one of a kind that’s for sure! You are way over complicating this. There is no donor deciding turkey regulations. The DCNR is trying to help the turkeys and figure the problem. They are just doing a bad job of it.
Then why does he continue to be employed??.....Most people who are this bad at their job get replaced. They only get replaced if the person who hired them thinks they are doing a bad job. Hopefully she will see how bad of a job he is doing and replace him. CNC you are one of a kind that’s for sure! You are way over complicating this. There is no donor deciding turkey regulations. The DCNR is trying to help the turkeys and figure the problem. They are just doing a bad job of it.
They didn’t make decoys illegal because they didn’t think it would help. But I guess you are going to say that they didn’t make decoys illegal because the turkey decoy manufacturers donated money to Ivey and she wouldn’t let him make them illegal? Or is their another conspiracy theory on the deep state turkey regulation controllers? I believe by not allowing them the first 10 days shows they know full well the impact. Then they did think it would help the dominant Turkey theory. Whichever, that’s not the point. The whole point I’m trying to make is there is no donor behind the scenes sitting down with Kay Ivey and Sykes saying “the wild Turkey is in decline and we want to keep it that way. So make some dumb decisions regarding the season and say you are doing it to try to help but in reality let’s keep the numbers in decline. It really helps us if there are less turkeys in Alabama.” Ivey is more worried about congressional voting lines, the budgets, bridge and road projects, and all the other crap governors fool with. Just because it’s important to us doesn’t mean it’s important to her. Like it has been said, Sykes thinks he is the smartest person in the room. Now that he has made some bad decisions, he’s not going to admit he was wrong and take another approach on his own. I believe him getting replaced is the only option we have to head down a different road on this issue.
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,498
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,498 |
When is one of yall that complains gonna get on the inside and start making changes? Sykes is just a front man put in place to do the bidding of the money behind the scenes......Until those folks decide to do something different everyone's hands are tied. You may be right, and I am not connected well enough to know either way. But I will say that I've had a few conversations with some very wealthy people who are very interested in turkey hunting, and they were just as frustrated with the department leadership as I was. The current season length and limit isn't nearly as restrictive as what Chuck wanted. What we have is a compromise brokered by some of those wealthy individuals through a few members of the CAB. These are people who wanted to keep the historic AL system in place. Once those CAB members end their terms, I don't know what will happen. This administration has certainly shown a great desire to monetize the wildlife resources of the state. Consider the way they handle alligators, sandhill cranes, and deer baiting. There would have been a simple and easy solution for all of those, but that wouldn't make the department money. They went the convuluted route to make revenue, not to benefit the resource or the people. We had some CAB members 15-20 years ago who passed some rules to benefit a few wealthy folks over the objections of the then dcnr leadership. That's how we got decoys and a ML season, but those guys are long out of power. I don't really believe that the turkey rules are about money at this time. I certainly could be wrong. I think it's as simple as Chuck cares a lot about hunting and wants to enforce his vision of the way it ought to be. He doesn't seem to care much about fishing and stays out of it and allows the biologists to do their job, and I think as a result of that the state does a much better job with fisheries. Some might see it as he is doing a great job with turkeys; it's a matter of perspective. Whatever complains I have listed have always been about the way he does the job and where he seems to want to take us. I have nothing against him personally; I just oppose his agenda. I think it is bad for the hunters and will eventually prove disastrous for the turkey flock.
Last edited by poorcountrypreacher; 07/02/23 07:42 AM.
All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
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Joined: Jun 2012
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Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
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The whole point I’m trying to make is there is no donor behind the scenes sitting down with Kay Ivey and Sykes saying “the wild Turkey is in decline and we want to keep it that way. So make some dumb decisions regarding the season and say you are doing it to try to help but in reality let’s keep the numbers in decline. It really helps us if there are less turkeys in Alabama.” Ivey is more worried about congressional voting lines, the budgets, bridge and road projects, and all the other crap governors fool with. Just because it’s important to us doesn’t mean it’s important to her.
I think that conversation would sound more like…….”We think Mr. Sykes is doing a great job and if you want our support getting re-elected then we would like to see him stay in the position he is in.”
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Joined: Jun 2012
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Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
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I believe by not allowing them the first 10 days shows they know full well the impact. Exactly........
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Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 797
4 point
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4 point
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When is one of yall that complains gonna get on the inside and start making changes? Sykes is just a front man put in place to do the bidding of the money behind the scenes......Until those folks decide to do something different everyone's hands are tied. You may be right, and I am not connected well enough to know either way. But I will say that I've had a few conversations with some very wealthy people who are very interested in turkey hunting, and they were just as frustrated with the department leadership as I was. The current season length and limit isn't nearly as restrictive as what Chuck wanted. What we have is a compromise brokered by some of those wealthy individuals through a few members of the CAB. These are people who wanted to keep the historic AL system in place. Once those CAB members end their terms, I don't know what will happen. This administration has certainly shown a great desire to monetize the wildlife resources of the state. Consider the way they handle alligators, sandhill cranes, and deer baiting. There would have been a simple and easy solution for all of those, but that wouldn't make the department money. They went the convuluted route to make revenue, not to benefit the resource or the people. We had some CAB members 15-20 years ago who passed some rules to benefit a few wealthy folks over the objections of the then dcnr leadership. That's how we got decoys and a ML season, but those guys are long out of power. I don't really believe that the turkey rules are about money at this time. I certainly could be wrong. I think it's as simple as Chuck cares a lot about hunting and wants to enforce his vision of the way it ought to be. He doesn't seem to care much about fishing and stays out of it and allows the biologists to do their job, and I think as a result of that the state does a much better job with fisheries. Some might see it as he is doing a great job with turkeys; it's a matter of perspective. Whatever complains I have listed have always been about the way he does the job and where he seems to want to take us. I have nothing against him personally; I just oppose his agenda. I think it is bad for the hunters and will eventually prove disastrous for the turkey flock. If you would like to compare it to the fisheries, they could just set a limit on the number of birds that can be harvested by the state or by county similar to red snapper and if that number is reached then they shut down the season early. Only problem is that has the same issue we have currently. If the goal is reached early, then too many are being harvested instead of “we have plenty”. Or if the goal isn’t reached then “we don’t have enough, we need to lower the goal”. I’d be more than glad to support some sort of group or petition to have Sykes removed from the DCNR. The only problem I currently see, is who do we want to replace him? It would suck to trade one bad apple for another.
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Joined: Feb 2003
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Booner
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Booner
Joined: Feb 2003
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When is one of yall that complains gonna get on the inside and start making changes? Sykes is just a front man put in place to do the bidding of the money behind the scenes......Until those folks decide to do something different everyone's hands are tied. You may be right, and I am not connected well enough to know either way. But I will say that I've had a few conversations with some very wealthy people who are very interested in turkey hunting, and they were just as frustrated with the department leadership as I was. The current season length and limit isn't nearly as restrictive as what Chuck wanted. What we have is a compromise brokered by some of those wealthy individuals through a few members of the CAB. These are people who wanted to keep the historic AL system in place. Once those CAB members end their terms, I don't know what will happen. This administration has certainly shown a great desire to monetize the wildlife resources of the state. Consider the way they handle alligators, sandhill cranes, and deer baiting. There would have been a simple and easy solution for all of those, but that wouldn't make the department money. They went the convuluted route to make revenue, not to benefit the resource or the people. We had some CAB members 15-20 years ago who passed some rules to benefit a few wealthy folks over the objections of the then dcnr leadership. That's how we got decoys and a ML season, but those guys are long out of power. I don't really believe that the turkey rules are about money at this time. I certainly could be wrong. I think it's as simple as Chuck cares a lot about hunting and wants to enforce his vision of the way it ought to be. He doesn't seem to care much about fishing and stays out of it and allows the biologists to do their job, and I think as a result of that the state does a much better job with fisheries. Some might see it as he is doing a great job with turkeys; it's a matter of perspective. Whatever complains I have listed have always been about the way he does the job and where he seems to want to take us. I have nothing against him personally; I just oppose his agenda. I think it is bad for the hunters and will eventually prove disastrous for the turkey flock. If you would like to compare it to the fisheries, they could just set a limit on the number of birds that can be harvested by the state or by county similar to red snapper and if that number is reached then they shut down the season early. Only problem is that has the same issue we have currently. If the goal is reached early, then too many are being harvested instead of “we have plenty”. Or if the goal isn’t reached then “we don’t have enough, we need to lower the goal”. I’d be more than glad to support some sort of group or petition to have Sykes removed from the DCNR. The only problem I currently see, is who do we want to replace him? It would suck to trade one bad apple for another. My apologies, I should have said that I thought freshwater fisheries were being managed in a better manner than deer and turkeys. I don't fish saltwater a lot, but am at least aware of some of the issues. My understanding of the problem with saltwater, and especially red snapper, is that the state is a constant struggle with the feds, and the feds are the source of many of the restrictions. I don't have much to complain about regarding their management of freshwater fisheries. They have reduced limits only on the lakes that need it, and seem to have left anglers with as much discretion as possible. For example, FL long ago cut the bass limit to 5, but AL has only cut it on the specific lakes that the biologists said needed it. Happy Independence Day to all!
All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
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Joined: Apr 2000
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12 point
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12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
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If you would like to compare it to the fisheries, they could just set a limit on the number of birds that can be harvested by the state or by county similar to red snapper and if that number is reached then they shut down the season early. Only problem is that has the same issue we have currently. If the goal is reached early, then too many are being harvested instead of “we have plenty”. Or if the goal isn’t reached then “we don’t have enough, we need to lower the goal”.
I’d be more than glad to support some sort of group or petition to have Sykes removed from the DCNR. The only problem I currently see, is who do we want to replace him? It would suck to trade one bad apple for another.
The problem with this comparison is twofold. One, we have a fairly good idea how many snapper their are and how many we can harvest to maintain sustainable populations. We don't have anything near that with turkeys and populations are too sporadic with little spread from one population to another like snapper. Two, snapper harvest is highly monitored with a significant number of boats being checked. I understand there are pretty good fines for over limit and not keeping fish documented with snapper check. We don't and really can't do anything like that with turkeys. Wish we could.
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
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Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 13,344 Likes: 1
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 13,344 Likes: 1 |
Regardless who is in charge - we got a lot of renegades killing early - killing over bait and a ton of IDIOTs also killing over limit - all major losers so it only going down hill regardless - most dont trap - predators up
People are more selfish - greedy and it all about the kill now for many and lets show out and put pics on internet cause it will impress the heck out of everybody 🤣🤣🤣
Lets blame whomever - no - look in the mirror
Hunt the wind - leave it better than you found it - love your neighbor as you love your self
We need prayer for our country now more than ever
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,130
Mildly Quirky
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Mildly Quirky
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,130 |
Two, snapper harvest is highly monitored with a significant number of boats being checked. I understand there are pretty good fines for over limit and not keeping fish documented with snapper check. We don't and really can't do anything like that with turkeys. Wish we could. We could, but won't. Fines and penalties for wildlife violations have been ridiculously low forever. They have no teeth and inflict no pain. To improve the data the DCNR should: 1. Require mandatory tagging that actually is enforced. "Mah tag blew off." - "Mah tag's in the truck at camp." - "I didn't know." - "Whatever other excuse I can think of." Nope. Read the regulations and laws. That's part of being a hunter and angler. Tag on the turkey (or deer) or you're in violation, period. Citation coming if you don't have it. 2. Mandatory check-in We do this in other states and no one seems to mind. Here in our state, everyone's lost their mind about it. Tyranny! Chuck! Never had to do this! Mah grampy fought in th' war so I could do what I want! Check number goes on the tag that has to be on the animal. No tag, no number, nothing else, you're in violation. Citation coming. 3. Stiffer penalties that won't be reduced by a sympathetic judge or slick attorney saying his poor ol' client "is just putting food on the table." Bullchit. Those days are over and we know it. The fines are piddly. Legislators won't approve anything stronger, though, because people bitch at them. We -- conservatives -- ALWAYS carp about everyone not running afoul of the law, "do the crime, do your time," laws are there and should be known, and everything else associated with that. Yet forever, we've been raging hypocrites when it comes to wildlife violations because "Aw, it's just a deer" or fish or turkey. No one wants to be the hammer. But a hammer is needed in some situations.
"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter
"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013
"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
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8 point
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8 point
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Speaking of the hammer, 535 sq miles (smallest county) for one GW to cover, or even 2, is quite the chore. I mean, what kind of bad luck would you have to have to get caught doing something illegally?
You gonna pull them pistols, or whistle Dixie?
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10 point
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10 point
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100% agree with the stiffer fines. Several years ago, we bow hunted Wisconsin. At that time, you could shine fields until 10:00. It was common to have deer standing in the ditches that would just look at you as you passed. When I asked what was different, they explained in Alabama, if you got caught shooting a deer by spotlight, it was $50, if anything. At that time, the fines there started at $3500 and loss of hunting rights. With them having more wardens and much stiffer fines, the deer were much safer than here.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,130
Mildly Quirky
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Mildly Quirky
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Speaking of the hammer, 535 sq miles (smallest county) for one GW to cover, or even 2, is quite the chore. I mean, what kind of bad luck would you have to have to get caught doing something illegally? We also need more game wardens, marine police and state troopers. One game warden for a county, or none at all, or even two for a county (esp the big ones like Jackson or Mobile), is just insane. Alabama didn't corner the market on having too few GWs and Marine Police, though. Every state has similar issues. If you're in a county with one or even two GWs and get caught, you're not very bright IMO or you run your mouth and show off. More than one GW has made cases by just having good sense to listen at the feed store or restaurant as Billy Jack is yammering about his seventh turkey or ninth buck or "cornin' deer back where they can't find me." All that said, and the previous post of mine, I'm not in favor of more regulations or laws. We have too much chit to deal with just to hunt and fish now anyway. Damned sure wish we didn't have to have them. But we do, and honest folk should do the right thing. And if they don't do the right thing, then something more might be necessary. I'm sure when we were kids and got in trouble, getting a smack with a belt wasn't the absolute first thing our parents did. The famed "time out" or "don't do that again" or "sit there for 5 minutes to think about it" probably was a first option. Maybe a second. But at some point they're going to have to get the message across.
"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter
"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013
"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,130
Mildly Quirky
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Mildly Quirky
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100% agree with the stiffer fines. Several years ago, we bow hunted Wisconsin. At that time, you could shine fields until 10:00. It was common to have deer standing in the ditches that would just look at you as you passed. When I asked what was different, they explained in Alabama, if you got caught shooting a deer by spotlight, it was $50, if anything. At that time, the fines there started at $3500 and loss of hunting rights. With them having more wardens and much stiffer fines, the deer were much safer than here. I've been fortunate enough to hunt deer in Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Iowa and Illinois, and also nine other states. Each time in those first five states, because of their reputations, out of curiousity, I've asked my host about the fines-penalties for not tagging or checking a deer. Most looked at me like I had a third arm growing out of my head to even ask. A couple shook their heads and said, "Not good, if you get caught." Here, at home in our state, I have no fear. I respect our GWs and know they do a tough job. But when you're not worried about getting caught or that the fine is piddly, it's no big deal. I don't want our GWs and Marine Police to be riot squad assholes with no conscience or souls. But I also don't want to keep hearing state officials bitching and whining like babies about "compliance isn't where it should beeee" and hoping everyone does the right thing. Because it ain't going to happen with the way things are set up now.
Last edited by Clem; 07/05/23 02:59 PM.
"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter
"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013
"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
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10 point
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10 point
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100% agree with the stiffer fines. Several years ago, we bow hunted Wisconsin. At that time, you could shine fields until 10:00. It was common to have deer standing in the ditches that would just look at you as you passed. When I asked what was different, they explained in Alabama, if you got caught shooting a deer by spotlight, it was $50, if anything. At that time, the fines there started at $3500 and loss of hunting rights. With them having more wardens and much stiffer fines, the deer were much safer than here. Not sure where you got $50 for shooting a deer by spotlight in Alabama but that is totally inaccurate. 40 years ago it was over $500.
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Posts: 9,470 Likes: 2
Fancy
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Fancy
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Posts: 9,470 Likes: 2 |
Kinda sad really. We used to be THE respected State regarding turkey populations and turkey management. That was under Charles Kelley and Corky Pugh. Now, just another "in decline" State. Sadly I think Chuck simply doesn't get it. I don't think he is dumb but he doesn't understand research nor the results of the data coming in. And, you are correct, he does not care much for the average hunter and DOES think he is the smartest person in the room. Sadly the combination of 1) you are defiantly NOT the smartest person in the room and 2) thinking you are is a BAD combination. I don't disagree with the general brunt of his premise.... hunters who just want to kill one at all costs to post to social media is a growing problem. He's right. But the increase in baiting is the departments fault, even though they opposed it in public. Ive said it for a long time - we are making it too easy to kill one turkey, killing 5 isn't the problem. The loss of the standardized harvest survey results for trend comparison was all him when they dropped one survey to switch to GC and Duda. The incredibly inept turkey research project they contracted through AU was all him as well. It cost a lot with NO significant results. Yes, baiting for turkeys has increased a LOT since the baiting laws came into effect. I kill them with corn regularly and I dont even bait for deer. Used to never happen.
Talked to someone who attended the southeastern wild turkey working group meeting last week in Oklahome. Anyone who was anyone regarding scientific turkey research and management (at least State and University) was in attendance. There were NO representatives from ADCNR. The ONLY State that had no one in attendance from the DCNR. EVERY State in attendance had some sort of turkey research project that was State sponsored.... except AL. That is pitiful. All of that is really discouraging. It seems there's little hope for things getting better. There is SO much I want to say but I’m just not. 🤪
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Old Mossy Horns
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i think the fines are plenty high enough . damn its just a deer . if they change any thing on fines it should be per inch of antler .
i know a young guy (at the time) that was fined $3,500 . lost his rifle and almost his truck he still owed on for killing a buck after dark out of season . thats enough.
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Booner
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Booner
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Posts: 11,572 |
Buying individual tags for deer or turkey is not the answer
The last thing we need is to have to pay for something especially when many of us have a lifetime hunting/fishing license and werent supposed to be paying for anything else regarding either
IMO this would cause way more outlaw activity than ever before
When I need expert advice I tend to talk to myself
The older I get the better I used to be
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6 point
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6 point
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I agree with everything y’all have said and do not care for Sykes. However, everyone’s answer is always follow the money. How does anyone benefit monetarily from people not hunting and killing turkeys? I am certainly not saying that the don’t, I just don’t understand how.
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6 point
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6 point
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,159 |
https://www.outdooralabama.com/articles/turkey-harvest-debate-continues-population#:~:text=According%20to%20Game%20Check%20reports,is%20subject%20to%20significant%20debate. Here's their latest article, and it reinforces what I've been saying for years is their line of reasoning - if the turkey harvest goes up that is proof that we are killing too many turkeys and the harvest must be restricted. If the harvest numbers go down, then that is proof that we are running out of turkeys and the harvest must be restricted.  Everything that Chuck Sykes writes indicates that he has an intense hatred of hunters. It may just be that he hates people period, but he usually focuses on us hunters. I got to admit that some of what he says is true, but does he have so little self awareness that he doesn't realize he is the primary person that caused many of these problems to exist? Someone else will have to answer that, but he is either incredibly dumb or he thinks that all of us are incredibly dumb. Allow me to address a few of his jewels from the article: >>>Chuck Sykes, WFF Director, also said this trend in turkey harvest cannot necessarily be construed as an increase in the turkey population.<<< The article said this, and then Chuck wrote of how there were more successful hunters in the first 10 days of the season the past 2 years than in 2021. I would ask you to imagine how else it would be possible for the harvest to increase overall without an increase in the first 10 days? And how it could increase without more hunters being successful? He tries to make it sound alarming when it's the only way possible to get an increased harvest, and any other WFF director would present this as a good thing. It would seem that having more turkeys and more hunter success is not the goal of his department. The only thing he ever presents as a positive is any of his schemes that make more money for the department. And then there is this one: >>>But the biggest one was hunting over bait,” Sykes said. “We had more than 80 citations written for hunting by the aid of bait in the first 10 days. If we wrote that many, how many were doing it? I think people’s mindsets have changed to ‘I just want to kill turkey under any circumstance so I can post the picture or video on social media.’<<< Does he really not understand that the increase in baiting turkeys is DIRECTLY rated to his very own deer baiting program that he has boasted about many times? Does he not understand that many people who buy his baiting license feel entitled to continue it year round? They lament the fact that due to GC they no longer have a reliable way to estimate the true harvest, but never once look in the mirror to realize that they caused it. And they never seem to understand that all of their senseless restrictions are directly responsible for many deciding to just go rogue. If the department is nothing but a for profit corporation, many just ignore them. I don't believe Sykes has any grasp of this very obvious fact. I could give several more examples, but most of the regular posters here will see them too. PCP. I have had a little interaction with Chuck in the turkey woods and all I’m going to say is that he is concerned about one thing. Killing a turkey. At the expense of another if necessary Take it for what it’s worth.
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