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4 point
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Killing a 150 in Kansas is also not near as hard as Alabama, both 100% free range. So does it make me less a hunter if I drive to the midwest?
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14 point
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I think it's wrong. Game in Alabama is property of the State. When a landowner does something on his property that affects my property, I'm against that. Say you have 100 acres boarded on 3 sides by a big money man with 1000 acres and he fences his property. You now have zero hunting. The 1000 acre guy paid (upfront and in future taxes,etc) much more for property compared with the 100 acre guy. You say "big money man with 1000 acres" kind of like Obama talks down about wealthy people like they're inherantly evil. The 100 acre guy could also fence his place. All goes back to property rights. No one else is paying the 1000 acre man's property taxes or mortgage. He should be able to do what he wants to (within state law) on his personal property as long as it doesn't affect your personal property (land). Wild deer are no one individual's personal property, so as long as state law is followed I have no problem. Most large game fences are built to keep deer out, not in, to manage the overall deer herd & habitat. You hit the nail on the head, wild deer are no one individual's personal property..............therefore when you fence them in, what have you done??????? Are you going to give me a key so I can come in and take a few deer that belong to the State?? Now you'll tell me I can't dam up a creek that runs through my property to make a lake, because game & fish are both regulated by the state. If I built a lake, the fish are confined to my property and can't go downstream to your property. But I still have to abide by state Game & Fish laws because these game fish are owned by the state of Alabama. This sounds like Hugo Chavez/Daniel Ortega/Raul Castro...take away personal property rights from private land owners. You can't dam up a creek without a permit and for good reason. What gives you the right, if I own land below you, to take that water? What if someone above you dammed it?? Some of ya'll need to stop and think. Just because you own a piece of property, does not make you God. yup...always kind of felt there was a contradiction with allowing hunters to fence in their property for this reason. You take a resource owned by the state and at free will get to make it your own. In my opinion the only ethical way to make a deer your own is to kill it. Very unlikely situation, but what if the next state record buck was baited off of one property during the summer on to another property that was putting up a fence. That state record buck that could have died of natural causes or could have been killed by anyone with in 5 miles is now owned by the guy that fenced in his property...just doesn't make a lot of sense. Again, unlikely, couldn't be proven, etc, etc. but it or similar situations could have and probably have happened.
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14 point
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I've always heard you can't dam up a "named" creek/waterway. I think it has gotten to the point of any branch/creek. Not that you can't dam it up, they just want to see a plan and make sure you don't adversely affect your neighbors. I see nothing wrong with that. Ha, if only it were that easy. They will make you buy mitigation credits for "taking" that stream and any associated wetlands. Makes all the fuel and equipment time look like pennies. I worked on a project that took a landowner over 6 years to build a 12 acre pond. You don't even want to know what it cost. He really wanted it bad. Back to the original topic - I will defend a landowner's right to fence his property all day long, but I won't call it ethical hunting to shoot the deer or exotics within the fence. Ask any member of the general public how "ethical" it is to hunt deer or exotics within a fence. The size of the fence and acreage of the property is irrelevant. I am 100% against people bringing in exotics inside a fence. If God wanted stags or lions in the south, he would have put them here. I don't care if it's "worked" in Texas. Again, I'll defend your right to fence it, but I won't agree with the "ethics" of doing it just to prevent others from influencing "your" deer. No, I haven't read most of the previous posts and no, I won't get into a pissing contest about it. Just wanted to state my opinion. good post...I freakin hate seeing exotics in the US. In my mind worse than deer farming...just cause they aren't supposed to even be here in the first place... I know there have been other animals brought in years ago that are now wild (pheasants, Russian Boar, etc.) but now they are wild, but I could take em or leave em. Hunting an African animal inside a fence in Texas is stupid, plain and simple. Which just made me think about the freakin idiot with the pony tail that hunts exotics in Texas all the time. has some kind of fictitious sounding name...anyway, he is horrible and should be banned from outdoor TV
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Mildly Quirky
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Mildly Quirky
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How about shooting a flown-in tiger inside a fence in North Alabama?
"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter
"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013
"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
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14 point
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The size of the fence and acreage of the property is irrelevant. Really???? They did some kind of poll where they asked the general public about hunting, and a large majority have no issue with hunting as it's always been known. They were also asked about hunting inside a fence (didn't specify size that I know of) and the majority were opposed to it. I agree hunting and killing a deer inside a 10000 acre fence is as hard as killing one in free range, but you do have the ability to control variables in a fence that you can't control in free range, thus making it easier to manage deer to an older age and higher antler score, which is why for me whether it's 1000 or 20000 acres, killing a huge buck inside a fence is not impressive to me...IMO
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14 point
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Killing a 150 in Kansas is also not near as hard as Alabama, both 100% free range. So does it make me less a hunter if I drive to the midwest? apples and oranges...
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Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
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The size of the fence and acreage of the property is irrelevant. Really???? They did some kind of poll where they asked the general public about hunting, and a large majority have no issue with hunting as it's always been known. They were also asked about hunting inside a fence (didn't specify size that I know of) and the majority were opposed to it. I agree hunting and killing a deer inside a 10000 acre fence is as hard as killing one in free range, but you do have the ability to control variables in a fence that you can't control in free range, thus making it easier to manage deer to an older age and higher antler score, which is why for me whether it's 1000 or 20000 acres, killing a huge buck inside a fence is not impressive to me...IMO Well said.
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4 point
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I have "hunted" in a high fence 2,600 acre farm and even with that much land - I can assure you it is not hunting. There were three of us in a "condo" shooting house and deer started coming into the field immediately. I finally decided to take a doe with my shotgun. After I shot, we went to go find the deer. However, I must have missed as I was using iron sights on the shotgun. The three of us trampled all over the woods looking for that deer. Finally, we decided we would get back in the shooting house and hunt a little more. Not 10 minutes after getting back into the shooting house, huge bucks started coming back into the field. It was something that would not of happened in "the wild." My buddy finally shot a cull buck and we went out into the field again and dragged that deer up to the shooting house. I might add that he shot twice at that deer. So, with a little daylight left, we got back into the shooting house and deer began to come into the field AGAIN! It was really pretty dumb. Felt like you were in a petting zoo.
I'm not against folks having high fence areas and I don't think it is the government's job to tell you one way or the other but if I ever make it big - I'll put my money towards more land, not high fence. So were you trying to say it was easy? Cause you shot three times and only killed one deer Yeah, I was trying to say it was easy. What part of that do you not understand or find fault?
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14 point
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14 point
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So jmj120, answer the question, is it ok for Mark to pave but not fence?
By the way I have no lease, I hunt public land only in AL As long as he doesn't destroy a wetland .:) Somebody needs to invent an icon for "grasping at straws"
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Booner
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Booner
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See if you can find all this in your Hunter's Digest: Regulation Book 2011-2012______________________________________________________________ 220-2-.147 Deer Enclosure Regulation (1) The season for hunting all species of deer shall be closed within any enclosure capable of confining deer, where: (1) there exists or has existed any man-made point of access that allows deer to enter the enclosure but restricts their ability to exit the enclosure, including, but not limited to, any man-made ramp, platform, funnel, maze, or one-way gate; or (2) any bait has been placed so as to lure deer through any man-made opening into any such completed enclosure. (2) The deer season shall be closed within any such enclosure from the date the owner or operator of the enclosure is notified by Wildlife and Freshwater Fisheries Division Enforcement personnel. The deer season shall remain closed for two years after such devices are removed or such conditions no longer exist. The owner or operator shall notify any persons who may hunt within the enclosure of the closed deer season. ______________________________________________________________ Code of Alabama 1975 Title 9 CONSERVATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES. Article 19 Hunting of Native Game Animals and Certain Nonindigenous Animals. Section 9-11-500
Definitions.
For purposes of this article, the following words have the following meanings:
(1) GAME ANIMAL. A species of animal designated by the Commissioner of Conservation and Natural Resources pursuant to Section 9-2-7, as a game or fur-bearing animal, any game or fur-bearing animal that exists historically and naturally in the wild within this state, or any game animal of the species of the family Cervidae (deer) that exists within this state in the wild as a result of the natural expansion of its range prior to May 1, 2006, which are white-tailed deer, fallow deer, and elk.
(2) NONINDIGENOUS ANIMAL. A species of animal, other than birds, that does not exist historically and naturally in the wild within the state or does not exist within the state as a result of the natural expansion of its range.
(3) TAME GAME ANIMAL. An animal that has been held captive as a zoological attraction or exhibit, or any animal, at the time of hunting, not exhibiting the flight characteristics or wariness for the species.
(Act 2006-109, p. 159, �1.) Section 9-11-501
Hunting of native game animals under certain conditions prohibited.
It shall be unlawful for any person to hunt or kill, attempt to hunt or kill, or offer the opportunity to hunt or kill native game animals or any other animal legally permissible to hunt for a fee or other valuable consideration or for recreation under conditions in which the animal hunted does not have a reasonable opportunity to evade the hunter, including, but not limited to, hunting animals that are tied, staked, hobbled, or caged; animals that have been released from confinement less than 10 days; or animals that are taken by aid of any remote controlled or computer aided device. Hunting of native game animals or any other animal legally permissible to hunt within the confines of an enclosure does not in and of itself constitute a violation provided adequate space and escape cover for the species exist to provide the animals with a reasonable opportunity to evade the hunter.
(Act 2006-109, p. 159, �2.) Section 9-11-502
Hunting of tame game animals prohibited.
It shall be unlawful for any person to hunt or kill, attempt to hunt or kill, or offer the opportunity to hunt or kill any tame game animal for a fee or other valuable consideration or recreation. The promise or guarantee of, or contract for, killing an individual tame game animal, shall be prima facie evidence of a violation of this article.
(Act 2006-109, p. 159, �3.) Section 9-11-503
Hunting of nonindigenous animals prohibited.
(a) It shall be unlawful for any person to hunt or kill, attempt to hunt or kill, or offer the opportunity to hunt or kill any species of animal nonindigenous to the state including, but not limited to, any species of African or Asian lion, tiger, or elephant for a fee or other valuable consideration or for recreation.
(b) This section does not apply to feral swine or to any species of animal deemed a nuisance by the Commissioner of Conservation and Natural Resources, nor to any nonindigenous animal lawfully brought into this state prior to May 1, 2006, or their offspring; provided the owner of the nonindigenous animal provides written notice to the commissioner of the ownership and location of the species.
(Act 2006-109, p. 159, �4.) Section 9-11-504
Hunting of pen-raised birds.
Nothing in this article shall prohibit the hunting of pen-raised birds by properly licensed hunters or by properly licensed persons engaged in the training of bird dogs, or by persons engaged in bird dog field trials as provided by law or rules promulgated by the Commissioner of Conservation and Natural Resources.
(Act 2006-109, p. 159, �5.) Section 9-11-505
Penalties.
Any person, firm, corporation, or association that violates Sections 9-11-500 to 9-11-504, inclusive, of this article shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction, shall be fined not less than two thousand dollars ($2,000) nor more than five thousand dollars ($5,000), and may be imprisoned in the county jail for a period of not more than 30 days for each offense. A second and subsequent offense shall be punishable by a fine of not less than five thousand dollars ($5,000), and by imprisonment in the county jail for not less than 10 nor more than 30 days.
(Act 2006-109, p. 159, �6.)
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Booner
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Booner
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I have "hunted" in a high fence 2,600 acre farm and even with that much land - I can assure you it is not hunting. There were three of us in a "condo" shooting house and deer started coming into the field immediately. I finally decided to take a doe with my shotgun. After I shot, we went to go find the deer. However, I must have missed as I was using iron sights on the shotgun. The three of us trampled all over the woods looking for that deer. Finally, we decided we would get back in the shooting house and hunt a little more. Not 10 minutes after getting back into the shooting house, huge bucks started coming back into the field. It was something that would not of happened in "the wild." My buddy finally shot a cull buck and we went out into the field again and dragged that deer up to the shooting house. I might add that he shot twice at that deer. So, with a little daylight left, we got back into the shooting house and deer began to come into the field AGAIN! It was really pretty dumb. Felt like you were in a petting zoo.
I'm not against folks having high fence areas and I don't think it is the government's job to tell you one way or the other but if I ever make it big - I'll put my money towards more land, not high fence. So were you trying to say it was easy? Cause you shot three times and only killed one deer Yeah, I was trying to say it was easy. What part of that do you not understand or find fault? Did you ever bother to think that maybe the reason that the deer acted the way they did was because they were well managed, well fed and not pressured. Pressure is the key. I hunt free range but have assisted with herd managment (doe shooting) in a couple large (1800 and 2800 acre) high fenced properties in central AL. The first couple years after they were fenced, the deer were still pretty hard to kill. Then 5-7 years later, they were much easier to see and shoot. Why, because the guys that owned them kept the pressure way way down. Most deer in AL are hunted everyday from Oct 15 to Jan 31. That's 109 days of being chased. Now, I know for a fact that between the two properties, there may have been 20 days of hunting pressure and then it was only 3 or 4 people (this is why they brought 6-8 of us in every year to kill does by the truckload). Unless they were bottle fed and aclimated to humans, in your situation, it probably wasnt that they had special easy to kill deer. You saw deer acting in an unpressured relaxed setting. Problem is, very few people in AL have ever seen or hunted a well managed unpressured herd. I've also been blessed with the opportunity to have hunted well managed privately owned, low pressure, free range land in AL and the deer were just as easy to kill there as they were in the fence. The ones that have can attest. Heck yeah it's easier to kill them when they arent pressured to death. AL deer are pressured and hunted so much that they are by far harder to kill than just about anywhere else in the US.
Last edited by abolt300; 08/23/12 09:28 AM.
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4 point
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The size of the fence and acreage of the property is irrelevant. Really???? They did some kind of poll where they asked the general public about hunting, and a large majority have no issue with hunting as it's always been known. They were also asked about hunting inside a fence (didn't specify size that I know of) and the majority were opposed to it. I agree hunting and killing a deer inside a 10000 acre fence is as hard as killing one in free range, but you do have the ability to control variables in a fence that you can't control in free range, thus making it easier to manage deer to an older age and higher antler score, which is why for me whether it's 1000 or 20000 acres, killing a huge buck inside a fence is not impressive to me...IMO Bingo. It's not necessarily mine or your opinion about the size of the fence that matters. I'm not saying you don't own the deer. The State of Alabama is saying you don't own the deer. Your possession begins when you take the life of the animal. That being said, I'm not sure any of that really matters that much to the discussion of the ethics of hunting inside a fence. I probably shouldn't have even brought it up.
Last edited by landshark; 08/23/12 09:10 AM.
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10 point
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This argument is useless  If you are against, there will be no swaying your opinion. Those that are for it or at least indifferent, it just aint worth it...
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4 point
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I'm not sure I understand your statement about 5,000 acres of hilly woods. Does the terrain really matter? I've hunted properties that are 20k acres plus. I've hunted properties that are 100 acres. So what? My point about high fences is that our opinions as hunters don't really matter. You are fighting a losing battle to try to convince the general public that hunting within a fence is ethical hunting. Personally, I don't agree with it, but I'll defend a landowners right to do it same as I'll defend a landowners right to do pretty much anything else on their land. Doesn't mean I have to agree with all of it, but if we are to keep our rights to hunt we must do it in a way that is acceptable to the general public. I don't mean we should bow to their every whim, but there's no way you win over the general public on the topic of high fencing. My point about the size of the fence and acreage of the property has nothing to do with the "huntability" of it. It's just the perception of it. And NightHunter is right, I've said my piece and counted to three! 
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4 point
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I must say, all of this made for interesting reading material. Valid points on both sides.
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Mildly Quirky
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Mildly Quirky
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You are fighting a losing battle to try to convince the general public that hunting within a fence is ethical hunting. This is true.
"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter
"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013
"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
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10 point
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Possibly the greatest, most debated topic i have ever posted! 
If your decoy doesnt have holes in it, your not letting him get close enough... J.H.
"Life lessons are almost never found where you think they should be, sometimes they're in the middle of a small, muddy creek in the woods with steep banks"... DeadorAlive
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4 point
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I have "hunted" in a high fence 2,600 acre farm and even with that much land - I can assure you it is not hunting. There were three of us in a "condo" shooting house and deer started coming into the field immediately. I finally decided to take a doe with my shotgun. After I shot, we went to go find the deer. However, I must have missed as I was using iron sights on the shotgun. The three of us trampled all over the woods looking for that deer. Finally, we decided we would get back in the shooting house and hunt a little more. Not 10 minutes after getting back into the shooting house, huge bucks started coming back into the field. It was something that would not of happened in "the wild." My buddy finally shot a cull buck and we went out into the field again and dragged that deer up to the shooting house. I might add that he shot twice at that deer. So, with a little daylight left, we got back into the shooting house and deer began to come into the field AGAIN! It was really pretty dumb. Felt like you were in a petting zoo.
I'm not against folks having high fence areas and I don't think it is the government's job to tell you one way or the other but if I ever make it big - I'll put my money towards more land, not high fence. So were you trying to say it was easy? Cause you shot three times and only killed one deer Yeah, I was trying to say it was easy. What part of that do you not understand or find fault? Did you ever bother to think that maybe the reason that the deer acted the way they did was because they were well managed, well fed and not pressured. Pressure is the key. I hunt free range but have assisted with herd managment (doe shooting) in a couple large (1800 and 2800 acre) high fenced properties in central AL. The first couple years after they were fenced, the deer were still pretty hard to kill. Then 5-7 years later, they were much easier to see and shoot. Why, because the guys that owned them kept the pressure way way down. Most deer in AL are hunted everyday from Oct 15 to Jan 31. That's 109 days of being chased. Now, I know for a fact that between the two properties, there may have been 20 days of hunting pressure and then it was only 3 or 4 people (this is why they brought 6-8 of us in every year to kill does by the truckload). Unless they were bottle fed and aclimated to humans, in your situation, it probably wasnt that they had special easy to kill deer. You saw deer acting in an unpressured relaxed setting. Problem is, very few people in AL have ever seen or hunted a well managed unpressured herd. I've also been blessed with the opportunity to have hunted well managed privately owned, low pressure, free range land in AL and the deer were just as easy to kill there as they were in the fence. The ones that have can attest. Heck yeah it's easier to kill them when they arent pressured to death. AL deer are pressured and hunted so much that they are by far harder to kill than just about anywhere else in the US. Did you ever bother to think that maybe the reason the deer acted the way they did was because there was a high fence surrounding the property? The simplest answer is the correct one in this case. 
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14 point
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I have "hunted" in a high fence 2,600 acre farm and even with that much land - I can assure you it is not hunting. There were three of us in a "condo" shooting house and deer started coming into the field immediately. I finally decided to take a doe with my shotgun. After I shot, we went to go find the deer. However, I must have missed as I was using iron sights on the shotgun. The three of us trampled all over the woods looking for that deer. Finally, we decided we would get back in the shooting house and hunt a little more. Not 10 minutes after getting back into the shooting house, huge bucks started coming back into the field. It was something that would not of happened in "the wild." My buddy finally shot a cull buck and we went out into the field again and dragged that deer up to the shooting house. I might add that he shot twice at that deer. So, with a little daylight left, we got back into the shooting house and deer began to come into the field AGAIN! It was really pretty dumb. Felt like you were in a petting zoo.
I'm not against folks having high fence areas and I don't think it is the government's job to tell you one way or the other but if I ever make it big - I'll put my money towards more land, not high fence. So were you trying to say it was easy? Cause you shot three times and only killed one deer Yeah, I was trying to say it was easy. What part of that do you not understand or find fault? Did you ever bother to think that maybe the reason that the deer acted the way they did was because they were well managed, well fed and not pressured. Pressure is the key. I hunt free range but have assisted with herd managment (doe shooting) in a couple large (1800 and 2800 acre) high fenced properties in central AL. The first couple years after they were fenced, the deer were still pretty hard to kill. Then 5-7 years later, they were much easier to see and shoot. Why, because the guys that owned them kept the pressure way way down. Most deer in AL are hunted everyday from Oct 15 to Jan 31. That's 109 days of being chased. Now, I know for a fact that between the two properties, there may have been 20 days of hunting pressure and then it was only 3 or 4 people (this is why they brought 6-8 of us in every year to kill does by the truckload). Unless they were bottle fed and aclimated to humans, in your situation, it probably wasnt that they had special easy to kill deer. You saw deer acting in an unpressured relaxed setting. Problem is, very few people in AL have ever seen or hunted a well managed unpressured herd. I've also been blessed with the opportunity to have hunted well managed privately owned, low pressure, free range land in AL and the deer were just as easy to kill there as they were in the fence. The ones that have can attest. Heck yeah it's easier to kill them when they arent pressured to death. AL deer are pressured and hunted so much that they are by far harder to kill than just about anywhere else in the US. Did you ever bother to think that maybe the reason the deer acted the way they did was because there was a high fence surrounding the property? The simplest answer is the correct one in this case. They are admitting that high fence hunting is easier, whether that's because of less pressure or the fence itself.
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10 point
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[/quote]Did you ever bother to think that maybe the reason that the deer acted the way they did was because they were well managed, well fed and not pressured. Pressure is the key. I hunt free range but have assisted with herd managment (doe shooting) in a couple large (1800 and 2800 acre) high fenced properties in central AL. The first couple years after they were fenced, the deer were still pretty hard to kill. Then 5-7 years later, they were much easier to see and shoot. Why, because the guys that owned them kept the pressure way way down. Most deer in AL are hunted everyday from Oct 15 to Jan 31. That's 109 days of being chased. Now, I know for a fact that between the two properties, there may have been 20 days of hunting pressure and then it was only 3 or 4 people (this is why they brought 6-8 of us in every year to kill does by the truckload). Unless they were bottle fed and aclimated to humans, in your situation, it probably wasnt that they had special easy to kill deer. You saw deer acting in an unpressured relaxed setting. Problem is, very few people in AL have ever seen or hunted a well managed unpressured herd. I've also been blessed with the opportunity to have hunted well managed privately owned, low pressure, free range land in AL and the deer were just as easy to kill there as they were in the fence. The ones that have can attest. Heck yeah it's easier to kill them when they arent pressured to death. AL deer are pressured and hunted so much that they are by far harder to kill than just about anywhere else in the US. [/quote]
That got me laughting prutty good!
Playin string music
Hoyt Vector 32
Get Serious Get Hoyt
Alto, la migra means Stop, immigration in Spanish slang. They'll scatter like skittles dropped on a concrete floor. -Furflyin
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