Aldeer.com Forums Alabama Deer Talk Serious Deer Talk Forum Deer shedding horns

State data would indicate that we should be in the secondary rut period here in Marshall County but I have pics of one the last two days that dropped already.

Crazy situation in the Southeast with different rut dates. Just crossing the Chattahoochee River results in a 2 month difference. I am convinced it is a result of deer being imported from other areas of the country to repopulate the south years ago. It is early spring here now with azaleas blooming and the bucks are gettin after it. My brother killed a really good one with a doe on Monday morning. After hunting other areas of the country with November/December ruts, the situation here seems goofy as hell.

Yep. Seen quite a few. Bucks back in bachelor groups. There’s absolutely NO reason for the February extension in most of north AL. None at all. Start writing letters. I mean it.

Antlers…..

What you may have been seeing is activity from the second estrous cycle in that area where the initial rut was early Jan……That’s one month later from that time frame…..That doesn’t necessarily mean that the Feb extension was warranted in that area if it was indeed the second cycle. It would be like south Alabama hunting through the end of Feb…….

What really dictates the question of “Is it warranted?” for many of these north Alabama counties…….is the question…..”Can the area handle the extra buck harvesting from hunting that many post rut days??”……For most areas I’m gonna say that answer is probably no…..or at least they would be better off long term to shut gun hunting down either Jan 15 or Jan 31 depending on the rut timing....maybe a little more accurate dividing up of the zones up there… …….Those dates I posted in the other thread did have some thought put behind them.

As long as you still believe that the answer to over harvesting bucks is to shoot does to “balance out the ratio”……then we may be agree on the problem but we still don’t on the solution.

…..and those circumstances mainly exist in a text book……In most real world situations across Alabama if an over harvest of bucks is occurring it means you need to either produce more bucks to meet the demand or reduce the amount being killed…….All that killing does will accomplish in these situations is lowering the number of bucks produced and exacerbating the problem of there not being enough to go around.

CNC, there are properties in AL that have moderate annual doe harvest and very little buck harvest and the balance of sex and age ratios offers phenomenal hunting opportunities. Get outside your bubble and understand that deer densities are not low everywhere. They’re actually quite high in places. The counties I primarily work have areas with very high densities. Since buck mortality is higher than doe mortality due to the stresses of breeding and fighting, some doe harvest is absolutely necessary to continue to maintain that sex and age structure.

Whether you will ever believe it or not, I’m going to state facts again. You will not recover from the consequences of having a population heavily skewed in favor of does by not killing deer. It don’t work, won’t work, never has and never will work. The population must be brought down to a level where the bucks available can breed the does in a timely window, so they’re not coming into estrous again a month later. It’s a never ending cycle that will not correct itself if bucks are being over harvested. There’s too many stresses on a population like that for it to flourish.

As for this ridiculous extension into February that has absolutely ZERO biological justification, my concern is the same as yours, and was stated before it even came into being. Bucks are already being over harvested across large areas. This isn’t the same hunting environment of the 80s through the early 2000s. Deer populations are not expanding into areas they haven’t been for decades. They’re leveling off with what the habitat and cover can support, and what people are willing to tolerate. They’re also receiving high amounts of pressure because now that the playing field is equal for the 1 acre landowner, with a feeder and cell cam, that can kill 3 bucks (and will just because they can). High buck harvest in these areas is leading to an even worse sex ratio that’s causing more stress, longer breeding seasons and higher mortality on bucks. It’s absolutely insane. I’ve watched people over the last few days and they’re literally panic killing now. They’ve waiting until February to “fill the freezer” and they’re shooting whatever they see. Shed bucks, racked bucks, does and fawns. The additional buck harvest those 10 days add to the overall annual harvest is in the hundreds of bucks per county. Not all counties, but in some. Those are bucks that otherwise would’ve been recruited into next years breeding population. They’re not now. It’s kind of like the scenario you and I debate so much and disagree on the solution. You will not correct it until the buck harvest decreases. It’s a never ending cycle.

CNC, there are properties in AL that have moderate annual doe harvest and very little buck harvest and the balance of sex and age ratios offers phenomenal hunting opportunities. Get outside your bubble and understand that deer densities are not low everywhere. They’re actually quite high in places. The counties I primarily work have areas with very high densities. Since buck mortality is higher than doe mortality due to the stresses of breeding and fighting, some doe harvest is absolutely necessary to continue to maintain that sex and age structure.

Whether you will ever believe it or not, I’m going to state facts again. You will not recover from the consequences of having a population heavily skewed in favor of does by not killing deer. It don’t work, won’t work, never has and never will work. The population must be brought down to a level where the bucks available can breed the does in a timely window, so they’re not coming into estrous again a month later. It’s a never ending cycle that will not correct itself if bucks are being over harvested. There’s too many stresses on a population like that for it to flourish.

I’m gonna take the high road on this one and just let you believe what you want to believe…..I would point out though that when folks have to start resorting to personal insults its typically a pretty accurate reflection of the weakness of their argument.