Aldeer.com Forums Alabama Deer Talk Aldeer General Forum Spiritual Question

Mark me as one who would caution reading outside sources more than the Scripture itself. Yes, other resources can be helpful, but whenever possible, go to the source.

The analogy I would liken it to is this: you can learn a lot about your wife by talking to her friends. You may gain insight about her by talking to her family. But to really know your wife and to have a relationship with your wife, you need to spend more time with your wife and listening to her than her friends or family.

I prefer the ESV version. The Message and some others may be a good tool for grasping the over-arching story and narratives, I wouldn't lean too hard there for sound theological study.

God made it clear in His own word that he uses the preached Word to call sinners to Himself. So yes, outside of someone READING the gospel, or HEARING the gospel, there is no salvation to be found for man.

"How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?"
- Romans 10:14

I agree the bible is very important and it is the true story of Jesus Christ, my Lord and savior(even if i forget my bible at home). However, if every bible disappears off the face of the earth tomorrow, i will still have a relationship with God all mighty. Jesus will still have died on the cross and rose on the third day. He will still have defeated sin, even without the existence of a book to tell about it. The word could still be preached. We could all still communicate directly with God. I gree with your respect for the bible but if my wife and i were stranded on an island without a bible and had a child and raised that child to love and respect the Lord and taught that child about Jesus and that child believed with all his heart. You cant tell me the Lord God couldnt save that childs soul, even though there wasnt a bible or preacher on that island, thats just silly. And again, my God is bigger than that.

Unable? Certainly not. Unwilling? Absolutely. You can disagree with me all you want. But you are also disagreeing with hundreds of years of church history. Most every mainline protestant denomination would agree with the view of scripture i posted above.

Jwalker,

We are not talking about the absence of a physical copy of the Word. We are talking about the absence of the truth revealed by the Word. Someone can be saved without an actual Bible in their hand. But they can't be saved beyond the truth revealed in scripture. Whether that truth was related to them by someone who read the word themselves and then proclaimed it or whether they read it for themselves......the only saving knowledge comes from the scriptures.

Surely we can agree on that.

My Pastor did a sermon on Living Like Jesus, while on earth this past Sunday.....he discussed three things that we can do daily that will get us closer to God and allow God to work in us......Solitude, Silence and Sabbath......I get a lot of Solitude and time to talk with God each day not only when I am around the house, but also when I am in the woods and enjoying mother nature. Sometimes just being silent, opening up our heart and allowing the Lord to speak with us on how he wants us to live each day goes a long way.....and understanding the Sabbath......it is extremely important to follow the commandment on keeping it holy....the bible is always important, but having that personal relationship at all times is also important.....

Im just saying it happened whether theres a book to tell about it or not. And it dont matter to me how many bible scholars for how many centuries get together and decide what God can or cannot do, God is God, he can do what he chooses, and he will not ask anyone's opinion before he does it. You can not bind God, or use scripture to bind him. I dont believe there is a situation imaginable where God couldnt reach and save a sinner. Now, if you take Jesus out of the equation, there is no hope of salvation. There is no other way to be saved except the blood of Jesus. But like i said, if every bible disappears and every preacher dies tomorrow, God can still find a way to save a sinner, if he chooses to. I dont think we are too far apart on our beliefs. I just try real hard not to put God in a box. God is God. He makes the rules and no man can say what God can do.

Thanks for mentioning that point. Dispensations matter, and Abraham, Enoch, and Moses, and Elijah, and all those guys lived in a time when God used men to reveal His will and word. Of course today, we can just let scripture speak for itself and avoid the need for man-written creeds altogether. I've never understood why man thinks he needs to clarify what God was really trying to say...it just doesn't make sense that I need a Creed to tell me I believe what the Bible says...

1 Tim 3:15-17
And you know that from childhood you have known the sacred scriptures, which are able to give you wisdom for salvation through faith in Jesus Christ. All scripture is inspired by God and is profitable for teaching, for rebuking, for correcting, for training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work

On the subject of "having it wrong", the scribes and pharasees were the bible scholars of that day. Jesus preached about a spiritual relationship with him but all they knew was reading scriptures and rituals. We have already seen it once that all the bible scholars had it wrong once. And that was with Jesus himself there to teach them. Is it so hard to believe that todays scholars could have some things wrong, even though they have the Bible to teach them?

1) get an easy to read, respected translation for reading through, like a novel, not studying.
2) the average reader, reading 30 minutes a day, can read the Bible through in 72 hours.
3) get an easy to read, respected translation with page space for notes, and explanations printed at the bottom of the pages. use this one one for your STUDY Bible.
4) be strict on yourself with the reading Bible; do not stop to look stuff up, except to make a brief, separate note to follow up later in your study Bible.
5) reading the Bible through in a separate copy allows the reader to soak in the story of the Hebrew people - hence, the story of Jesus - in a seamless, enjoyable way. it seems much less like a chore.

Jwalker,

God is absolutely bound by scripture. The more I read your comments the more I believe you and I may not believe in the same God.



Hammertime,

You question why we need creeds and confessions to clarify what we believe as Christians? I think this train wreck of a thread is enough proof for the necessity of a solid confession.

Obsession, i apologize for taking so much space on your thread. Please forgive me.

Amen... the easiest way to what you're wanting is probably this route AND it helps you form relationships with other people that are on the same journey.

I think what the poster countering your viewpoint was trying to get across is that WITHOUT the bible we wouldn't know the things you're referring to. We know about Jesus because of the Scriptures, we know we should have faith because we learn it from the Scriptures, etc. It's hard for us today to imagine it, but what would we know about God/salvation without the written word? Romans 10:17 is absolutely clear that faith comes from being exposed to God's word - and that's Scripture.

Also, as someone mentioned above, God puts Himself "in a box" because of what's written. For instance, 2 Peter 3:9 says God isn't willing for ANYONE to perish. Is God capable of NOT wanting someone to be saved??? Not according to that passage. Scripture reveals the nature of God to us and when we use Scripture itself to "put God in a box", it's not man who's doing it but God Himself.

No apology need I’m trying to take all this in. I thank y’all for the insight!

mrinfo. PM sir

Oh, mercy. The primacy of scripture is a core doctrine of the Christian faith. Departure from Scripture is why there is so much error in guys like Joel Osteen, TD Jakes, Steven Furtick and others. The Bible describes exactly who God is and His character. Too many folks are trying to make Him up apart from what Scripture dictates. The Charismatic NAR and WOF movements are full of "worship" that is based much on experience but is much less concentrated around the Bible.

Someone else already mentioned 2 Timothy 3:16-17 - "All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work."

Emphasis on verse 17 about it completing man.

Read James and John.

I think this is a good discussion and I'd also say we probably all agree on the importance of the Word a lot more than we are able to communicate here. I have seen this though.... While scripture is the revelation of God to the world, there is also the drawing of God by the Holy Spirit and also by the word of peoples testimony. Keep in mind that the church in the books of Acts had no New Testament but they were witnesses to it being written.

In Acts 11 verses 19 -21. The Jews started to persecute the church and then the Gospel spread like a fire. These were common ordinary Christians who simply believed in Christ through their own eyewitness or the testimony of others. They gathered, prayed and I'm sure they heard some of the Old Testament writings, but for the most part, these were uneducated, simple people, some of which I'm sure couldn't even read. So, how did the church grow in a way like it had never grown before ? Word of mouth. They shared with others what they knew God had done for them and they testified of Christ in their lives. In this case it wasn't the apostle's who were responsible for the growth in the church. It was the people who were scattered and their verbal stories of what God had done.

Today, we have the benefit of the full counsel of God. We are more equipped than the New Testament church because we have a clearer understanding of God's revelation of Himself to us via His word. We should treasure it and be thankful for it. And yes, it was hard for me when I was first saved to focus on the bible and read it like I saw other people doing. But then I grew. There's a time where God honors the obedience of people when we pursue Him. It's almost like He will see just how much we really want to know Him before He will speak. Not all the time, but sometimes I have had that happen in my own life.

BPI there was a GREAT outpouring of the Holy Spirit going on in Acts. But you understand that. Through the spirit the church was started and spread like wild fire. We have just about cut the spirit off in 2022, but without it, there will never be another human saved. More than understanding of his word, we should be begging God to pour his spirit out on us. Yes understanding the word is very, very important but if you ever know God, it will be through his spirit. Important to know about God. More important to know God. "I never KNEW you, you worker of iniquity" not "you never read about me, you worker of iniquity." God deals with plenty of beings in the bible who know the word backward and forward, they know exactly who he is, they just dont know him. There is a difference.