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9 members (janiemae, cmontgomery, riflenut, jmj120, hoggin, BamaGuitarDude, AU coonhunter, coosabuckhunter, 1 invisible),
768
guests, and
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Key:
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Global Mod,
Mod
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 29,100 Likes: 86
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 29,100 Likes: 86 |
Bowhunting........ 
Folks that know don't shoot old does........
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,857 Likes: 1
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,857 Likes: 1 |
Bowhunting........ 
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Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 10,387 Likes: 73
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 10,387 Likes: 73 |
Or you could cut down on members and pay more per member. The largest problem is everyone wants to keep doing what they want to do and make everyone else comply.if you need 5 deer to feed your family for a year shoot em. If you need 10 member to pay for your lease get them. But don't complain your not seeing any deer..and your solution be state who you've already said can't manage deer should make everyone else do what you want to do to manage deer. I want to cut my members, but that still doesn't solve the problem. My lease for example, just to use round numbers is 1/3rd pine thickets, which are unhuntable. It's 1/3rd pines that need to be cut/thinned, with nothing growing under them, so its useless to hunt, no reason for a deer to be there, except to travel to a better place. The other 1/3rd is huntable, and thats where the food plots are, and guess what? All the huting pressure. So I basically have half a square mile of huntable property, and the density in Shelby Co is 30 to 60 deer per sq mile. If half are doe's and half are bucks, that means I have about 7.5 to 15 doe's that the guys can hunt and shoot. If we shoot 5, that leaves us 3 basically to repopulate on the low side and 10 on the high. Half the fawns will be bucks. You don't have to be a math whiz to figure out that is not a recipe for increasing your deer herd when you have a daily doe limit and 3 buck per season limit. It won't work. So say my lease is 12000. 10 guys are paying 1200 just for the lease. That doesn't cover seed and fertilizer. So I am gonna ask for 1400 a year and tell them, hey you can't kill a doe???? Who will sign up and write me a check? I will put you on the list for the 2022-23 season.
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 29,100 Likes: 86
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 29,100 Likes: 86 |
Bowhunting........ Iffin you want to do something in the interest of “the deer” that other entities cant so easily complicate ……then transitioning to a bow hunting oriented system with short rifle seasons would help solve a lot of problems on the deer’s end of the interest equation. It’s the simplest way to manage our deer herd across the board to insure quality hunting without all the clutter or depending on hunters to make good decisions about pulling the trigger…..Here’s a bow, go hunt, sling 575 duzen arras at them and shoot what you want to. There will have to eventually be changes made to what we are doing now or the deer herd is gonna keep gradually declining. You cant have your cake and eat it too on these things like free for all baiting combined with 3 months of wild west rifle season with virtually unlimited doe days combined with more and more habitat fragmentation, etc…..That’s just a recipe for depleting the resource base…..It seems almost like that’s the very point of what we’re doing……Look at the response we’re likely gonna have to CWD…..What will they say we need to do??........Keep lowering the deer numbers even more??……If the trends continue we’lle eventually get to the point where deer hunting is something that’s mostly done around the big plantations , in management areas, or in high fences. The deer don’t form political action committees and such to fight on their behalf. They rely on humans to that for them and that doesn’t always work in their best interest when $$$ is involved. Changing to a bow hunting type system gives “the deer” themselves a little bit better way of holding their own against the $$$ I guess you could say. It will likely never happen though.
Folks that know don't shoot old does........
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,449 Likes: 17
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,449 Likes: 17 |
Or you could cut down on members and pay more per member. The largest problem is everyone wants to keep doing what they want to do and make everyone else comply.if you need 5 deer to feed your family for a year shoot em. If you need 10 member to pay for your lease get them. But don't complain your not seeing any deer..and your solution be state who you've already said can't manage deer should make everyone else do what you want to do to manage deer. I want to cut my members, but that still doesn't solve the problem. My lease for example, just to use round numbers is 1/3rd pine thickets, which are unhuntable. It's 1/3rd pines that need to be cut/thinned, with nothing growing under them, so its useless to hunt, no reason for a deer to be there, except to travel to a better place. The other 1/3rd is huntable, and thats where the food plots are, and guess what? All the huting pressure. So I basically have half a square mile of huntable property, and the density in Shelby Co is 30 to 60 deer per sq mile. If half are doe's and half are bucks, that means I have about 7.5 to 15 doe's that the guys can hunt and shoot. If we shoot 5, that leaves us 3 basically to repopulate on the low side and 10 on the high. Half the fawns will be bucks. You don't have to be a math whiz to figure out that is not a recipe for increasing your deer herd when you have a daily doe limit and 3 buck per season limit. It won't work. So say my lease is 12000. 10 guys are paying 1200 just for the lease. That doesn't cover seed and fertilizer. So I am gonna ask for 1400 a year and tell them, hey you can't kill a doe???? Who will sign up and write me a check? I will put you on the list for the 2022-23 season. The pine thickets are where the deer live. Your problem is too many hunters killing too many deer. You need to start over. Cut your members down to 6-8, limit doe harvest severely and kill mature bucks. It will take a whole different mentality and time. In my experience, I've been running leases for about 30 years, the more people pay for a membership, the fewer deer they choose to kill. It's quality over quantity. Meat hunters will never allow a place to fully develop. That's just my opinion based on my experience. Not everyone will agree
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Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 24
spike
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spike
Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 24 |
I absolutely agree with that! The term "too many" is relative to who said it. The financials of a large insurance company has a totally different view than Joe Hunter.
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Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 4,228 Likes: 163
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 4,228 Likes: 163 |
The problem is no one wants to pay money and not shoot deer.......the only solution is to pay more money and shoot less deer. My point is no one can fix this. Most especially the government
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,449 Likes: 17
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,449 Likes: 17 |
The problem is no one wants to pay money and not shoot deer.......the only solution is to pay more money and shoot less deer. My point is no one can fix this. Most especially the government Actually, that is not true. There are plenty of mature hunters that are looking to kill quality bucks only. They may be like unicorns, you have to search for them, but they are there. I hunt more than most, could kill deer on 98% of my hunts and I've killed 1 deer in the last 6 years. To each his own, I enjoy hunting as much as I ever did, killing one just ain't a big deal any more
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 354 Likes: 1
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 354 Likes: 1 |
What we have done on our lease (3200 acs) we started,this being 3rd season of doing it, you can only kill two does per membership,no does after December 31 and we have always not shot does on greenfields, and we’re seeing a lot more deer and the does are more calmer,
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Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 10,387 Likes: 73
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 10,387 Likes: 73 |
We aren't killing to many deer. What we aren't doing is killing enough bucks. Since I basically have 2 square miles, I can "carry" 60 to 120 deer on my lease, based upon the last denisity data for Shelby County I have found. We have killed 7 deer this year. That's not to many. Only one was a mature buck. My son killed a 2 year old 8pt while I was with him. I haven't even seen a rack buck this year, except the one my son shot. All my camera's show more bucks than doe's. I have 7 or 8 out, what are the chances that I managed to hang 8 camera's in various places on the property, and ALL of them are in buck rich area's, not doe rich area's.
The problem is the buck to doe ratio is way off. The only way I can keep my population where it is right now is to kill an equal number of bucks and doe's. We have killed 4 doe's, 2 bucks and a button head. Last year we killed I believe 6 doe's and 3 bucks. All I know of the prior year was 3 doe's and 2 bucks.
Since the limits have been heavily skewed towards doe killing and heck even the biologist I had come out suggested we kill 15 doe's, its creating a system where I am "carrying" more bucks per sq mile than doe's. I don't need 30 bucks to breed 30 doe's. And we don't see bigger bucks chasing doe's. Why? Well I would say because we have to many bucks.
And based upon the useage of my green fields, I am not on the high side of the denisity curve. So for me the solution is a couple years of very limited doe harvest, and way more buck harvesting, even immature bucks, to bring the ratio back into one that is better suited for deer movement. Then deal with the doe situation differently.
The only doe's that were killed on a green field this year were killed by kids. Most of the guys have let them slide. So I am part of the way there. But your average hunter in a club doesn't even own a climber. The come out and sit in shooting houses or ladder stands. The main climber hunter in my club is me.
And I can't hunt the pine thickets. I can hunt the edges, but there are trails coming out of them everywhere. I would need 50 camera's to monitor those.
I have everything I can plant planted pretty much. I can carry way more deer than I have, based upon my utilization and lack of a browse line. I just do not see a way to fix it except to not shoot any doe's for a while, or kill off some of the immature bucks until I have a larger resident doe population. It probably needs to be both.
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 6,778
ALDEER SPONSOR
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ALDEER SPONSOR
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 6,778 |
You need to tell them about your long term strategy and what you’re seeing. What you’re doing to promote a better hunting atmosphere. Get like minded guys to buy in. Decrease members and increase dues. Tell them absolutely zero doe harvest next season and see if you can fill the spots. Get the guys to buy into the long term goal of growing, holding, seeing and eventually killing said deer.
I’m not far from you and very similar habitat. It will support 60+ deer sq. mile and grow some good ones.
Ya'll are just overthinking it now
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Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 165
3 point
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3 point
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 165 |
Too many brown and down hunters!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"IF I AINT HUNTING, I'M THINKING ABOUT HUNTING"
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,449 Likes: 17
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,449 Likes: 17 |
We aren't killing to many deer. What we aren't doing is killing enough bucks. Since I basically have 2 square miles, I can "carry" 60 to 120 deer on my lease, based upon the last denisity data for Shelby County I have found. We have killed 7 deer this year. That's not to many. Only one was a mature buck. My son killed a 2 year old 8pt while I was with him. I haven't even seen a rack buck this year, except the one my son shot. All my camera's show more bucks than doe's. I have 7 or 8 out, what are the chances that I managed to hang 8 camera's in various places on the property, and ALL of them are in buck rich area's, not doe rich area's.
The problem is the buck to doe ratio is way off. The only way I can keep my population where it is right now is to kill an equal number of bucks and doe's. We have killed 4 doe's, 2 bucks and a button head. Last year we killed I believe 6 doe's and 3 bucks. All I know of the prior year was 3 doe's and 2 bucks.
Since the limits have been heavily skewed towards doe killing and heck even the biologist I had come out suggested we kill 15 doe's, its creating a system where I am "carrying" more bucks per sq mile than doe's. I don't need 30 bucks to breed 30 doe's. And we don't see bigger bucks chasing doe's. Why? Well I would say because we have to many bucks.
And based upon the useage of my green fields, I am not on the high side of the denisity curve. So for me the solution is a couple years of very limited doe harvest, and way more buck harvesting, even immature bucks, to bring the ratio back into one that is better suited for deer movement. Then deal with the doe situation differently.
The only doe's that were killed on a green field this year were killed by kids. Most of the guys have let them slide. So I am part of the way there. But your average hunter in a club doesn't even own a climber. The come out and sit in shooting houses or ladder stands. The main climber hunter in my club is me.
And I can't hunt the pine thickets. I can hunt the edges, but there are trails coming out of them everywhere. I would need 50 camera's to monitor those.
I have everything I can plant planted pretty much. I can carry way more deer than I have, based upon my utilization and lack of a browse line. I just do not see a way to fix it except to not shoot any doe's for a while, or kill off some of the immature bucks until I have a larger resident doe population. It probably needs to be both.
I would not worry about too many bucks. With 19 members and their families hunting you have way too many hunters. Leave the does alone and they will make more does. Too much pressure will have more affect on deer sightings than anything else you can do. It's your lease, do what you want, but with that much pressure you're passing in the wind
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Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 10,387 Likes: 73
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 10,387 Likes: 73 |
I still think we are buck heavy. Not sure how to fix that except to take out some of them, even if they aren't mature for a couple years and ease off the doe's. We are going to do a camera survey.
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Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 912 Likes: 16
6 point
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6 point
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 912 Likes: 16 |
Lockjaw, I think you’ve lost me. I don’t see what your trying to accomplish by killing young bucks. Like several have said above cut the members way down and maybe tell everyone they can kill 1 apiece during bow season only. A dead doe is a dead doe but it will be harder for them to kill one with a bow especially from the way you describe your members.
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Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 4,228 Likes: 163
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 4,228 Likes: 163 |
I need to quit reading this, because for the life of me I do not understand how if the problem is not enough deer, not enough bucks, not enough mature bucks.....the solution is kill more???
You have 10 bucks 10 does, you kill three bucks. Now you have 10 does seven bucks so now my problem is buck to doe ratio is off. Solution kill three does. So now I have 7does 7 bucks; kill three bucks now my deer ratio is off......after 5 years of this start a post......I have no deer, must be poachers and coyotes, and we need the state to change game laws????
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,449 Likes: 17
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,449 Likes: 17 |
Help me understand why you think you have too many bucks. Unless you're over the carrying capacity of your land, which you're not, what difference does it make? Most properties have too high of a buck to doe ratio, high on the doe side. The closer you get to.1 to 1, the more intense the rut is. Your rut should be insane. This is the first time I've ever heard anyone say they have too many bucks. Hope you figure it out
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Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 912 Likes: 16
6 point
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6 point
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 912 Likes: 16 |
Has anyone else heard or seen any scam check numbers recently? I talk to hunters every day and from public land guys to club guys to landowner guys and all I’ve really heard is they are seeing fewer deer this season and these are guys who are experienced hunters and it’s from guys who have places in maringo Dallas Pickens Lee Russel limestone Shelby etowah and Jackson counties so that’s basically all over the state. Oh I forgot Wilcox and Montgomery.
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,449 Likes: 17
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,449 Likes: 17 |
I guess I'm alone in the crowd. I've consistently seen more deer this year than I've ever seen. I've been hunting this part of montgomery county for 30 years. Seeing turkeys too. Heard 1 gobbling this morning
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 81,879 Likes: 513
GUVNER
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GUVNER
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 81,879 Likes: 513 |
Driving 331 at night is like playing deer dodge-ball.
"Never Trust Government" -- Smart people.
"The Great thing we should Fear and the Weird Thing we Trust is Elon Musk" -- Me
"You can be broke but you cant be poor." -- Ruthie-May Webster
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