Aldeer.com Forums Alabama Deer Talk Guns N Gear 338 Federal

What's the consensus on the 338 Federal? Thinking about a light, short, short to mid-range mountain rifle for mostly under 150 yards. I have a 16" 308 Ruger but have had the thoughts of either a 18-20 inch 338 Federal or a 358 Winchester bolt gun or possibly a rebored and rechambered Remington 760 308 carbine. The 338 Federal seems to have good statistics on paper, moving a 200gr bullet better than 2700 fps with over 3200 lbs/ft of muzzle energy or the 160gr Barnes at 3000 fps. There isn't much for factory ammo available but making brass from 308 won't be no big deal. Anyone have any experience with one? How much "better" is it than a 308 Win out of a 16" barrel? I know the 308 will do it all, just the gun nut in me likes to explore.

I always thought it would be a great cartridge, but the lack of factory ammo scared me off.

Buffalo Bore loads the .358 Win, but not the .338 Federal. That would be enough to push me to .358 Win.

Check your load data. Nosler list max velocities with 200 gr bullets at just a hair over 2500 FPS in a 24 in barrel, not 2700 FPS.

Not enough oomph for me.

Hmmm, wonder why Nosler is so low. From the Federal website:

Federal Premium 200g Trophy Bonded @ 2630/3071
Federal Premium 200g Trophy Copper @ 2630/3071
Federal Blue Box 200gr SP @ 2700/3237
Federal Fusion 200g @ 2700/3237
Federal Fusion MSR 185g @ 2680/2950

Compared to 308Win
Federal Premium 180g Trophy Bonded @ 2620/2743
Federal Premium Trophy Copper (165g) @ 2700/2671
Federal Blue Box 180gr SP @ 2570/2640
Federal Fusion 180g @ 2600/2702

It certainly isn't any faster than 180g 308Win loads but shows a good deal more ME combined with increased diameter of the .338 bullet it should be a short-range hammer as will the 358Win albeit significantly slower. I have not looked into any load day as of yet.

Probably buy the 338 federal rifle cheaper than the 358 win. I looked at the 338 Federal just to try something different but stayed with the 308.

My guess is that Federal uses a 24" barrel to get those numbers. With a 20" barrel I would expect at least a 100 FPS loss in velocity.

I've looked at the 338 fed in the past and just never could get warm and fuzzy with it. Just not a fan of guns with limited purpose and good effective ranges of 200 yards or so. 338 caliber bullets under 200 gr just don't make sense to me as I'm more of a medium to heavy bullet for caliber guy.

Yea, I'd defiantly expect a velocity loss as most load data is from a 24" tube. I would be at 20 max and most likely 18. This would be a purpose-built short-range mountain gun with most likely a 1-6x24 Trijicon Accupoint riding on top. Max visibility range in broad daylight would be 200 yards with most places being max of 100-120 and as daylight fades that distance shrinks quick. As stated earlier, I have a 16" Ruger compact 308 that would probably be about perfect for this situation with the right bullets, but I just can't help to think that a bigger bullet at the same or slightly greater speed wouldn't be more of a good thing. My A-Bolt 30-06 has never failed me but at nearly 9 lbs all up it is noticeable at times.

For a while I have had the notion to build a 338-06 or a 35 Whelen but lately have been thinking that a nice light compact short action rifle with a low power scope would be more suitable for a treestand gun up here in the mountains. As far as that goes I've had the thought of a 45-70 also but that would nix the light and compact rifle idea though.

First world problems for sure.

Big Bore on here had a 308 rebored to a 338 federal, he's a big fan of that cartridge. I have a 23" barreled 338 06 AI that whallops critters with a 200 gr SST at 2860 FPS.

I may just be odd but the short barreled rifle bug has never bitten me.

That's what I keep hearing about the 338 and 358 cartridges, they just lay the hammer down on deer at any range and don't have to be traveling 3000 plus fps to do it. I've had the short barrel bug before, and probably will again. That said, I've also had the long barrel bug and wish my 300WBY was a 26 or 28 incher instead of a 24. I admit though it's usually just want in one hand and chit in the other and stick with my ol 06.

Maybe Big Bore will chime in and give some details and experience with his 338 Federal.

Necking up 30-06 to 338-06 makes it very efficient.338-06 is probably most efficient cartridge of all.but when you neck up 308 Winchester to 338 federal it falls on its face.kinda disappointing
I'd go 358 Winchester for that short action if wanting a brush gun.
I'm sure 338 federal will do what you want but honestly I'd stick with 308 after alot of studying reloading manuals
358 would be pretty sweet though
Also most the .338 bullets are not designed for 338federal velocity probably won't get desired expansion out of most bullets

Same here I like 24 in or longer barrel mountain style rifles.never felt hindered in brush or tight places with longer rifle.
I'm running a 180gr Accubonds right at 2960 fps out of 338-06 I've got a few more loads that shoot super tight but can't remember velocity numbers as the 180 Accubonds is my go to but several others do just as well

A good 308 does everything a 338 Fed does. A good 358 does more. Efficiency goes up as bore size increases vs case capacity. If you’re worried about BC and what something does after 400-500 yards, then the 308 wins vs the 338. If you’re worried about killing things under 400, then the 358 wins vs the 338. I love 35s, and have had 358s for nearly 40 years…..but if I’m ‘practical’ about it, it’s no better than a 308 for anything outside of big bears. Which makes the 338 Fed a true bastard cartridge.

So what you're saying is you really have a dislike for all things 338.

Sorry I am late to the party! Yes. I truly love the 338 federal! No, it is definitely not a beanfield rifle. But it can and will do all things for you under 300 yards. I have a few rifles in .338. I even have an AR10 in .338 federal. I like the .308 and the .358. I feel that the .338 federal is a great compromise between the 2. The one I recently had rebored shoots lights out! But so do the others. I have shot a bunch of deer with it and for a while, it was my go to rifle for my Texas trips.

I usually shoot 200gr fusions but have recently been tinkering with 185gr Barnes triple shocks. The 200gr fusions have been very impressive on the animals I have used it on. As far is the rifle goes, I can’t think of a better treestand weapon in a short barreled rifle!

As a side note, I do appreciate all .308 based calibers (260,7-08, 358). I am also a big fan of the .308. Use it all the time. But I do feel that the .338 federal gives me more punch for larger animals. My first .338 federal was my AR10 that I bought for a Nilgai hunt. However I know it would be a great elk weapon as well.

The .338 federal is often overlooked by hunters but do a google search and you will find a lot of articles about its performance. Many outdoor writers feel like it is one of the most under appreciated rounds out there.

3% touched on it. The .338 bullet performance is typically geared towards a higher velocity. I like it the cartridge but a lot of the bullets are designed with the Win Mag in mind. There are several lower weight that do perform well but the vast majority of .338 bullets were not designed with the .338 Federal in mind. Cartridge hasn't been out that long and popularity also dictates this.

On the flip side the .35 caliber bullet selection has many with good performance at the stated velocities. Think .35 Rem around 200 grain.

Flip once more... if you need a heavy bone crusher in .35 they got that too and also work and designed for moderate velocity. Think .35 Whelen

.358 for the win. More bullet section. Just been around much longer.

BTW. I did have a gun rebored for .338 federal. It was done by JES. You can find him all over 24hr campfire. He did a great job and it was super easy. Doesn’t cost much either. I think $250 and he pays for the shipping on the way back.

You want a short fast rifle that will kick a deers ass find a 35 Whelen in a H&R single shot. Ammo is pretty easy to find

Big Bore, what is the rifle you had rebored to 338 Federal? What is the barrel length and what bullets have you found to work best on deer at the Federal speeds?

Also, why are 358 Win 200g speeds so anemic compared to a 200g 338 Federal? Based off of what I've seen on Midway and Federals website, the 358 Win is a couple hundred fps slower. One would think with the larger surface area to push against the 358 would be just as fast or slightly faster with the same weight bullets as the 338 Federal. Just like the 338 Federal is faster than a 308 Win with 180 and 200 grain bullets

I'll take a stab at answering your questions.

The efficiency of the 308 case just goes down as you open up the neck. I stated the velocities Nosler gets with the 338 fed above. Hornady does list a few powders that push velocity over 2600 FPS.... In a 26" barrel. I suspect Federal uses a 26" barrel to quote those velocities.

NOBODY wants a 338 fed with a 26" tube.

But the marketing department said we can't have a new cartridge that only gets 2500 FPS so they use the long tubes to put velocities on the box that nobody will ever realize.

All of the maximum loads to get those velocities are highly compressed. The case just doesn't have the volume to push em harder. The compression ratio is just too low as you open up the neck.

Hornady also lists a few powders for the 358 win pushing a 200 gr bullet to 2700 FPS in a 24" barrel. Again, nobody wants a 358 win with a longer tube. Loads are again highly compressed to get those velocities.

So the gun I rebored was just a Ruger American in .308 that I had bought for my daughter. She killed a 9point with it when she was 15 but had bigger and better things to do in life as she got older. Before she headed off to college, I asked her if I could change some things on it. I had heard about JES reboring a bunch of guns for guys on 24hour campfire. I called out there and talked to him. Nice guy. Very simple process. Had it back in about 2 weeks. I then took it to Precision Tactical in Hoover and had those guys cerakote it a very cool gunmetal olive drab finish. Then did some work on the trigger.

The barrel on that gun is only 16” so it is tiny!! Feels great carrying through the woods and sits nicely in my lap in the treestand. I have mostly shot 200gr fusions out of it. I have not loaded for it yet but have bullets, powder and dies to do so. Fusions work great for this caliber. I have shot several large whitetails in Texas with it and the .338 slammed them real hard.

As far as the .358 goes, one of my best friends hunts with one in a M77 compact rifle. He loves it! I think it is very cool as well. I think he would agree that a .358 is a 200 yard and less gun where the .338 is a 300 yard and less gun. I really like both rounds. The benefits of having that much power in a short action is very impressive. I honestly don’t think you could go wrong with either calibers. I do not know why the .358 has so much drag in an equal weight bullet. I also don’t necessarily think there is any disadvantage in either cartridge. There are good loads for both calibers and if you hand load, you can get pretty creative on what type of load you want to shoot. I will say that the 338 is very much like a 308 in the since that it is inherently very accurate.

I am blessed to have a bunch of great rifles in a multitude of calibers. I must admit that one thing I really like about the 338 federal is that not a lot of people shoot that caliber. Just something a little different. Let me know if you have any other questions about that round.
-Big Bore