Aldeer.com Forums Alabama Deer Talk ALTurkey Talk -- Beards and Spurs Dr. Chamberlain

"pine plantations" may be a thing in some areas, but for the most part they are not a part of the timber management in most of west Alabama and central Alabama. Crews just move in and cut EVERY DAMN TREE on the property.

If this happened in ONE area on a small scale it would have little to no effect on the whole areas turkey population. But that isn't the case. Bob cuts his 200 acres, Tome cuts his 400 next to Bob, and John cuts most of his 1200 acres down the road. Total effect is loss of a LOT of habitat over a short period of time.

This dang dude is everywhere. And I’m sure he’s doing all this for free right?

He’s got fanboys scattered everywhere. They are the loud, woke minority of the hunting world somehow.

One question I always have about the predation theory is how do we explain the past? According to early American reports, there were huge turkey populations recorded by early American settlers yet many more predators existed at that time as well. I believe Alabama was home to our current predators (minus the hogs) plus wolves, bears, mountain lions, ect. How did the turkeys thrive surrounded by more predators than today and no trapping at all?

Danny/Hogwild pretty much hit the nail on the head with his synopsis of what and why the change is coming. I also feel the same way as he due to what I know based off conversations. For those that think the changes coming down the pipe is to save/increase the population you are going to be sorely disappointed when you are still in the same boat as you are currently in now or worse. You have to simply ask yourself how are these changes going to increase turkey numbers? In all reality they aren't as shown by so many examples right at your finger tips. The states approach is as exactly as Danny described. They are in the position of retaining the new interest the pandemic created to hopefully gain more dollars. If hunter success and satisfaction are down then the likely hood of retaining those $$$$ decrease significantly. However, their plan will do nothing to improve that now or in the future. It's a feel good measure so all the crying that is taking place will subside as the state is coming to the rescue I am going to refrain from posting on this subject moving forward but if the god lord sees fit to allow me to stick around another few years I check back in to see how the states plan is working out for those that support it. I'll bet you will still be mad and your sucker will still be in the sand just like it is now. For those of us that know what it takes to produce turkeys and with some cooperation from mother nature will continue to do what we do on land we control.

CNC to answer your question about Chamberlain, he want last 5 minutes on here. He's using his platform to promote a theory that most of us know is hogwash. He does not have the research or science to back it up as he has openly admitted. He trying his best to become the "Doctor Deer" of turkey and I say he's well on his way. He knows based off his and past research that season timing and harvest of male turkeys has little impact on increasing a turkey population. He will not publicly admit that because it will be detrimental to his platform and the support he has behind. He's toed the line with most states agenda plain and simple. He's the sole reason states are making changes and ignoring the states very own biologist conducted research and recommendations. That is my issue with him personally and our states DCNR!! The only thing the state can control is the season length and harvest on private land. As Danny/Hogwild suggested the state should use state/government controlled lands to pilot this theory before forcing it down everyone's throats. If it is shown to be a huge success I will fully support the states decision for change. If they already have that information lets see it!!

I'm no expert. But may have stayed in a holiday inn once. They had more habitat to Roost.
I dont know how many make the rounds through the state but the lower half of bama is getting absolutely torched by logging. Everyone is cutting. It may be from higher lumber prices. Less roost areas, less turkeys

Yep, I think depressed pine prices and high hardwood have forced a lot of landowners, large and small, to make the decision of cutting mature hardwoods. Not good for the turkeys.

Good question and here’s your answer
All those predators you named off were targeted by trappers, farmers, ranchers and hunters
Now we have very little predator management
Growing up in the 70’s and 80’s almost every boy I knew trapped and/or coon hunted
There were no coyotes or hogs and very few bobcats and foxes
I lived in what is now mulberry fork wma and we had a abundance of turkeys until the state took over that property which now attests to the states ability to manage any property for game animals

BhamFred, not to dispute you at all - but I do have a question ... I've shared hunting in West Texas -- basically, the desert ... It was so rocky, dry, arid, etc. & the scrub brush live oaks were hardly "roost trees" at all the birds roosted on power lines/poles ... It always made me wonder how the hell those Rio's survived -- but apparently, they did ... there were ample birds to hunt ...

my Q is - are our Easterns less hardy? are Rio's just tougher/meaner & can make it by eating rocks? there's NO doubt that clear cutting & habitat change (around me) is making an impact on the flocks -- no doubt about that in my mind, even more so than predation, flooding, farmer spraying/scattering what-not, blah blah blah ... Like you, i've long contended that habitat makes the most critical impact on turkey populations - so much so that i don't hunt w/some folks anymore

although deer related - watch The Back 40 by MeatEater - pretty much, their sole focus was habitat change -- it was amazing what changes they made & what major impacts/improvements it made in a relatively very short period of time ...

Fred,,,,,, I agree with you 100%.

I'll agree on the loss of habitat highly contributing to the problem. Uncle & I have a 1650 acre turkey lease in clark county that has been very good Turkey woods for many years. Landowner scalped (600acres) the place this past summer. Have only heard 2 birds gobble this season on the neighboring property.

My favorite Churchill quote answers this

“ The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it but in the end There it is “

1650 acres. Formally had turkey. Now you have 600 acres out of 1650 that is clean from a summer 2020 harvest.

The cutting ain’t the problem this year. Try again.

It won’t be great for you a couple years down the road.

But this year, that big arse CC would be a gobbler strutting magnet, like a beacon from miles away. Something else changed / happened.

Someone works in the logging business no doubt.

The cutting ain't the problem, try again? How the hell do you know that?

Well, let’s see. Maybe seeing birds in big CC’s ALL the time.

Like I said, won’t be great down the road. But a 600 acre pseudo cow pasture in the middle of Clarke County - yeah - turkey will be all over that the very first Spring.

We thought the same thing. We had a couple areas clearcut on our place and lots of big timber on neighboring properties were clearcut. Since then we haven’t had turkeys to hunt since. We went from having multiple gobblers to chase every time we hunted in the spring of 2016 to hearing one turkey gobble a few times in 2017 and never saw a turkey in our clearcuts. The harvesting of the big timber and herbicide sprayed on our thinned pines were the only difference in the area. I’m just a dumb coonass and no turkey biologist but it seems pretty clear to me. Changes in habitat is a big part of our lack of turkeys.

We’ve had about half of our club in Lamar county clear cut in the last 3 years. While they were clear cutting the big pines, they cut the SMZs way back from where they had been. Bottoms that were 300yds wide are now slivers of trees. Then they came in and sprayed everything from the air. We had a really good population of birds before the clear cutting. The clear cuts are still mostly thin enough for birds to use, because of the spraying, then wind rowing. I rarely see birds in them though. Which I thought was weird, because I always remember them flocking to fresh clear cuts in south Alabama. Maybe it’s because a lot of times they would burn instead of spraying a fresh cut. I’d estimate the number of gobblers on our property at 10-12 now. 4 years ago, I would have guessed 30-40. We also have big clear cuts, 300-600 acre blocks. I’m sure they would do better with smaller sections.

Everybody that I knew that coon hunted when I was growing up hardly ever killed one. They were in it for the chase, not the killing of the coons.


I see turkeys regularly use clear cuts of all ages. Some you couldn’t throw a rabbit in. Lol

Large SMZ’s help. Smaller patchwork CC’s are better. I stated previously, our average CC size runs about 90 acres. And yes, these birds around here love CC’s in the Spring. Gobbler tracks all over them when I’m out working. Current CC at my hunting property has been red hot all season as well.