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Key:
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 20,341 Likes: 28
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 20,341 Likes: 28 |
Is on the new THP show on youtube for any who are interested in hearing what he has to say.
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Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 2,420 Likes: 12
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 2,420 Likes: 12 |
You boys are gonna looooooove this one:
Nick Saban is spending his off season as a turkey biologist...
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 20,341 Likes: 28
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 20,341 Likes: 28 |
Pretty cool to see how they track the bird and how they scatter when they go to nest. Interesting so far
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 13,667 Likes: 28
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 13,667 Likes: 28 |
I gave them the first thumbs down for furthering the turkey docs platform and influence. Not going to watch either
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 12,458 Likes: 26
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 12,458 Likes: 26 |
Better ask his thoughts on limb launching in the comments
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 20,341 Likes: 28
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 20,341 Likes: 28 |
His phone number is on the show if any of you want to call and ask questions or provide suggestions. 706-542-6474
That was a really good show. Chamberlain seems to be a knowledgeable guy who has some common sense. Predation was not discussed but he did mention lots of the questions I see posted here so yall check it out if you get a chance?
Last edited by Ben2; 04/13/21 10:24 PM.
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,814 Likes: 14
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,814 Likes: 14 |
ALDeer physics: for every opinion, there's an equal & opposite opinion
A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,138 Likes: 5
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,138 Likes: 5 |
I noticed the good Doc avoided going into detail around why the hens had such a high nest failure and poor poult recruitment. You would think after the lengthy studies done in SC and now GA he would be able to speak to very specific causes rather than keep preaching we have a declining turkey population. It's like he knows those answers but it does not support the agenda!
I do agree with one thing he encouraged and that was for us hunters to get off our butts and do something to help create better turkey habitat or help the turkeys some way some how. Every turkey hunter has that opportunity and in my personnel opinion will be what it takes to increase the turkey population. These regulations coming down the pipe aren't gonna make much difference in my personal opinion. Unfortunately many turkey hunters will sit on their hands and do nothing while calling on the state to impose more restrictions on the limit and season length.
I can tell you from personal experience in regards to my best friends 200+ acre property a little effort and some extra money spent on that place has paid dividends to increasing the turkey population. After moving to Birmingham area for 10 years the property was no longer managed for turkeys and it showed when I moved back home. It has taken me a few years but things are improving to the point I feel comfortable taking a few gobblers off the property if I choose to do so. It was void of a huntable population for several years due to lack of management. For those that don't believe nest predators are a huge impact on the turkey population I encourage you to reconsider. If you declarer war on those egg eaters it makes a difference within a few years!!
"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life.
Comes to us at midnight very clean.
It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands.
It hopes we've learned something from yesterday."
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 20,341 Likes: 28
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 20,341 Likes: 28 |
I noticed the good Doc avoided going into detail around why the hens had such a high nest failure and poor poult recruitment. You would think after the lengthy studies done in SC and now GA he would be able to speak to very specific causes rather than keep preaching we have a declining turkey population. It's like he knows those answers but it does not support the agenda!
I do agree with one thing he encouraged and that was for us hunters to get off our butts and do something to help create better turkey habitat or help the turkeys some way some how. Every turkey hunter has that opportunity and in my personnel opinion will be what it takes to increase the turkey population. These regulations coming down the pipe aren't gonna make much difference in my personal opinion. Unfortunately many turkey hunters will sit on their hands and do nothing while calling on the state to impose more restrictions on the limit and season length.
I can tell you from personal experience in regards to my best friends 200+ acre property a little effort and some extra money spent on that place has paid dividends to increasing the turkey population. After moving to Birmingham area for 10 years the property was no longer managed for turkeys and it showed when I moved back home. It has taken me a few years but things are improving to the point I feel comfortable taking a few gobblers off the property if I choose to do so. It was void of a huntable population for several years due to lack of management. For those that don't believe nest predators are a huge impact on the turkey population I encourage you to reconsider. If you declarer war on those egg eaters it makes a difference within a few years!! You should call him Mike and ask him specific questions. He seems like a nice dude that would probably answer whatever questions you have.
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,085 Likes: 7
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,085 Likes: 7 |
I wonder if he found a fanboy with the same agenda to start threads for him on every outdoor forum?
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,138 Likes: 5
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,138 Likes: 5 |
Ben I honestly do not need him to answer any of my questions. I'm pretty confident I know the answer already and he's avoiding putting the information out there because it does not support the agenda. You have nest failures for two main reasons, predators and large scale burns which take place on a vast majority of our public land. You have poor poult recruitment for various reasons, failed nest, predators, loss of quality habitat/brood habitat and mother nature, with mother nature having a large impact on success or failure. I also believe the hunting pressure on most of our public land is out of control and has an impact on the turkey population and poult recruitment. As several have said on here, we have way to many turkey hunters these days drawing on the resource. I'm all for less hunter recruitment and willing to pay more for license if it's money the state/agency needs. It is nearly impossible to find members for my club that do not turkey hunt some and I screen heavily for those that do not.
I know we have population issue across the state and I'm not denying that. I live in an area now where I have seen one hen turkey in 4 years. What I am against is blanket regulation state wide that doesn't consider the different zones in the state and areas with stronger populations. What I would like to see the state do is start managing the resources they control at a higher level and encourage/educate the public on what they can do on property they control to help the turkeys. I personally believe this would achieve better results at increasing the turkey population over reducing the limit and season adjustments. Reduced limits and season length will have minimal results at best. If that was the case GA and MS would not be suffering the same decline as everywhere else the good doc claims. GA has a 3 bird limit and later opener and they are experiencing a decline. MS has had a 3 bird limit for as long as I can remember and they are also in a decline. Bag limit and season has very little to do with making turkeys in my personal opinion. Habitat and correct management with some cooperation from mother nature produces turkeys.
As one of the biologist pointed out in the video a mis-managed pine plantation in a problem in regards to productive habitat for the wild turkey. Unfortunately we have a lot of timber company land across the south east that is poorly managed and I believe it has contributed to the decline in many areas they are seeing. If I were over the DCNR I would reach out to these companies and see what it would take to get each of them to start a rotational burn program on their properties.
"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life.
Comes to us at midnight very clean.
It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands.
It hopes we've learned something from yesterday."
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,814 Likes: 14
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,814 Likes: 14 |
I wonder if he found a fanboy with the same agenda to start threads for him on every outdoor forum?
seems that way
ALDeer physics: for every opinion, there's an equal & opposite opinion
A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.
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Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 951 Likes: 19
6 point
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6 point
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 951 Likes: 19 |
Have yet to hear anyone contribute the declining Turkey Population on those nest destroying Hogs!
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,085 Likes: 7
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,085 Likes: 7 |
As one of the biologist pointed out in the video a mis-managed pine plantation in a problem in regards to productive habitat for the wild turkey. Unfortunately we have a lot of timber company land across the south east that is poorly managed and I believe it has contributed to the decline in many areas they are seeing. If I were over the DCNR I would reach out to these companies and see what it would take to get each of them to start a rotational burn program on their properties.
Of the entire timberland acreage of the state, only 31% is managed as pine plantation. That would include private ownership and industrial timberland owners. The numbers and data can be confusing to sort thru - but let’s say 20%, maybe a little more, is owned by non private timberland owners. With various rotation ages across management styles - about half of that currently belongs to an age class that is typically burned on a rotation (post thinned, older plantations). That gets us down to 10%. Let’s say you burn the plantation every two years. Now we are at 5%. So, best case scenario is only 5%, of the current timberland acres across the state, would be available for a program like that. Next, you would have to consider current harvest plans, proximity to busy highway, available weather days during burning season, etc. You probably end up landing at about 3%. Is that a lot of acres? Sure. 3% of all timberland acres in AL is a lot of acres at the end of the day. Another obstacle is convincing owners to do something that doesn’t necessarily promote timber growth, and can sometimes slow growth. Lot of factors here of course - but timber growth response is far from guaranteed. You can do other things better at promoting growth response. Last issue (which was my first thought) - is liability. And this is the biggest obstacle. I have obviously thought about this before - just like you - as something to help our turkey. Could it help - sure. But it’s not an easy road, and the available acres to do it - is way less than what you think when you break it down.
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 11,195 Likes: 138
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 11,195 Likes: 138 |
Ben I honestly do not need him to answer any of my questions. I'm pretty confident I know the answer already and he's avoiding putting the information out there because it does not support the agenda. You have nest failures for two main reasons, predators and large scale burns which take place on a vast majority of our public land. You have poor poult recruitment for various reasons, failed nest, predators, loss of quality habitat/brood habitat and mother nature, with mother nature having a large impact on success or failure. I also believe the hunting pressure on most of our public land is out of control and has an impact on the turkey population and poult recruitment. As several have said on here, we have way to many turkey hunters these days drawing on the resource. I'm all for less hunter recruitment and willing to pay more for license if it's money the state/agency needs. It is nearly impossible to find members for my club that do not turkey hunt some and I screen heavily for those that do not.
I know we have population issue across the state and I'm not denying that. I live in an area now where I have seen one hen turkey in 4 years. What I am against is blanket regulation state wide that doesn't consider the different zones in the state and areas with stronger populations. What I would like to see the state do is start managing the resources they control at a higher level and encourage/educate the public on what they can do on property they control to help the turkeys. I personally believe this would achieve better results at increasing the turkey population over reducing the limit and season adjustments. Reduced limits and season length will have minimal results at best. If that was the case GA and MS would not be suffering the same decline as everywhere else the good doc claims. GA has a 3 bird limit and later opener and they are experiencing a decline. MS has had a 3 bird limit for as long as I can remember and they are also in a decline. Bag limit and season has very little to do with making turkeys in my personal opinion. Habitat and correct management with some cooperation from mother nature produces turkeys.
As one of the biologist pointed out in the video a mis-managed pine plantation in a problem in regards to productive habitat for the wild turkey. Unfortunately we have a lot of timber company land across the south east that is poorly managed and I believe it has contributed to the decline in many areas they are seeing. If I were over the DCNR I would reach out to these companies and see what it would take to get each of them to start a rotational burn program on their properties.
Ben I honestly do not need him to answer any of my questions. I'm pretty confident I know the answer already and he's avoiding putting the information out there because it does not support the agenda. You have nest failures for two main reasons, predators and large scale burns which take place on a vast majority of our public land. You have poor poult recruitment for various reasons, failed nest, predators, loss of quality habitat/brood habitat and mother nature, with mother nature having a large impact on success or failure. I also believe the hunting pressure on most of our public land is out of control and has an impact on the turkey population and poult recruitment. As several have said on here, we have way to many turkey hunters these days drawing on the resource. I'm all for less hunter recruitment and willing to pay more for license if it's money the state/agency needs. It is nearly impossible to find members for my club that do not turkey hunt some and I screen heavily for those that do not.
I know we have population issue across the state and I'm not denying that. I live in an area now where I have seen one hen turkey in 4 years. What I am against is blanket regulation state wide that doesn't consider the different zones in the state and areas with stronger populations. What I would like to see the state do is start managing the resources they control at a higher level and encourage/educate the public on what they can do on property they control to help the turkeys. I personally believe this would achieve better results at increasing the turkey population over reducing the limit and season adjustments. Reduced limits and season length will have minimal results at best. If that was the case GA and MS would not be suffering the same decline as everywhere else the good doc claims. GA has a 3 bird limit and later opener and they are experiencing a decline. MS has had a 3 bird limit for as long as I can remember and they are also in a decline. Bag limit and season has very little to do with making turkeys in my personal opinion. Habitat and correct management with some cooperation from mother nature produces turkeys.
As one of the biologist pointed out in the video a mis-managed pine plantation in a problem in regards to productive habitat for the wild turkey. Unfortunately we have a lot of timber company land across the south east that is poorly managed and I believe it has contributed to the decline in many areas they are seeing. If I were over the DCNR I would reach out to these companies and see what it would take to get each of them to start a rotational burn program on their properties.
I see turkey hunting I’m most areas going the way of duck hunting. More people chasing the birds then there are birds. The forestry service that has control of the timber does not do anything to improve the habitat. We’ve tried for years to get the to do some burning. The way our place is set up, it would be so easy to burn certain compartments every year. They have no interest in burning unless it’s to replant. In 2016 we had plenty of turkeys on our place. The last day we hunted at the end of the season, we left 4 gobblers gobbling mid morning because we had to get loaded and get home. Foresrty service thinned a big part of our place and a lot of the large timber around our place was clearcut. The 2017 season we only had a couple birds gobble on our place and none on neighboring properties. In February of 2018 our place was sprayed to kill trash trees in the pines. We heard 1 bird gobble that season and it hasn’t got any better. I did see 2 gobblers with a group of hens a week before the season this spring. Heard 1 turkey gobble 1 time. In the long time we’ve had this place, my brother and I has killed 5 gobblers. The last one in 2015. The first 4 years we had the place it was rare to go in the woods and not see a turkey somewhere, no matter the time of year. Now it’s extremely rare to see a turkey not only on our place but in the whole area around our place. On a very rare occasion also, we will get a picture of a turkey. It’s very disturbing at the lack of turkeys now. I’m not going to give up on trying to get the Foresrty service to work with us to help the turkeys.
It's hard to kiss the lips at night that chews your a$$ all day long.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,138 Likes: 5
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,138 Likes: 5 |
Turkey247 you bring forward some specifics I did not know as for percentages. I know you are more in tune with the timber practices of the various timber companies in the SE. I can only speak to my personal experience over the years of leasing from timber companies. In all that time I have only leased one property that had their property on a rational burn program. I have personally seen the benefits of what this rotational burn program has done for the property. Compared to what I have experienced in the past to what I have experienced now, is night and day difference.
I recently talked my friend into burning his pines and it has helped hold the turkey the entire spring. It makes a difference in my personal opinion. Like you said, the liability and expense of doing rotational burn programs are simply cost that most land owners are not willing to do. As you pointed out it's not a guaranteed return on timber growth. I wish that our state agencies would educate and promote the benefits for wildlife as I personally feel like that alone makes it worth doing. I know I was personally ignorant to the benefits until I experienced it first hand. I had read about the benefits and been told, but until I experienced what a rotational burn does for the wildlife of a property is when it truly registered.
I know it's a complex road to navigate and one I doubt anyone within the state would be willing to tackle. It would be a big step in the right direction if they could some of that 2% to 3% signed up.
"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life.
Comes to us at midnight very clean.
It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands.
It hopes we've learned something from yesterday."
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,138 Likes: 5
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,138 Likes: 5 |
Marsh sounds like your properties decline was due to habitat loss. Would it be safe to say that is your opinion of what happened? I know with you being OOS it makes trapping nest predators difficult, but have y'all done any trapping?
"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life.
Comes to us at midnight very clean.
It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands.
It hopes we've learned something from yesterday."
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 11,195 Likes: 138
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 11,195 Likes: 138 |
Marsh sounds like your properties decline was due to habitat loss. Would it be safe to say that is your opinion of what happened? I know with you being OOS it makes trapping nest predators difficult, but have y'all done any trapping? I do believe big part of the decline is habitat loss around us, however I think our property has lots of diversity that turkeys like. Big creek bottoms scattered throughout the property, clearcuts, 2nd thinned pines. Select cut pines. Large greenfields. Extensive road system through the plantation pines. Large power line with large blocks of big timber around it. Clearcuts surrounded by big timber. Lots of newly planted pines that should be excellent nesting habitat. This is what makes me scratch my head as to why the population is almost non existent. I’ve inquired to the landowner about letting us get someone to trap but he didn’t want strangers running all over his family property, which I could understand. I wish I had the time to be able to trap enough to make a difference. We are noticing an increase in bobcats. We killed 4 this past deer season. We try to kill everyone we see. We see very few coyote tracks or droppings on our place. I know they are there but see very little sign. We are also starting to have a hog problem. Lots of things against the turkeys in our area.
It's hard to kiss the lips at night that chews your a$$ all day long.
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 20,341 Likes: 28
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 20,341 Likes: 28 |
I wonder if he found a fanboy with the same agenda to start threads for him on every outdoor forum?
Wonder if a know it all turkey genius replied to the post on every forum
Last edited by Ben2; 04/14/21 02:08 PM.
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,526 Likes: 13
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,526 Likes: 13 |
Have yet to hear anyone contribute the declining Turkey Population on those nest destroying Hogs! We don’t have any hogs but our turkey numbers are declining. I’m not saying hogs don’t do there share of damage.
"The Heavens declare the glory of God;and the firmament sheweth his handiwork" Pslam 19:1
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