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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997 |
There were several comments in Steve's thread about needing more fawn recruitment studies in Alabama. The DCNR has some plans of it's own in that regard. Last week, Chris Cook met us on our lease to discuss our annual evaluation and recommendations. He asked us to participate in a program of expanded studies to collect more data on fawn recruitment. Here's a quote from an article in the Mobile paper by Jeff Dute with some information about their new program: ... The question still remaining, according to wildlife biologists, is whether those impacts exist across all Southeastern landscapes to the point that they must be considered by private and public deer managers when setting overall herd-management goals.
It's a question that Ray Metzler, Alabama's assistant Wildlife Section chief, said the state conservation department hopes to answer as part of a program focused on determining fawn survival rates.
"What we're planning to do is not concentrated so much on coyote predation. We're more interested in seeing fawn recruitment data at multiple sites across the state," Metzler said.
Metzler said the Wildlife Section is already looking to fund a three-year program of data collections from at least 15 sites scattered across the state's Coastal Plain, Black Belt and Piedmont regions.
"That has been identified as a need and we want to try to manage our resources based on good science," he said. "Coyote predation on fawns has been identified as an important issue that's been mentioned in more than one publication and we want to see if it's as big an issue statewide or if it is more of a localized problem."
Metzler said the data-collection process should begin in early 2013.
Link to article: Coyotes: A new player in deer management in the Southeast
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 11,356
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 11,356 |
The wolves in MT, ID, and WY have had a huge impact on deer, elk, and moose populations. Only makes sense the yote will do the same here on our deer. There needs to be a good plan of attack to reduce the yote population.
Alabama Hog Control, Inc. www.alabamahogcontrol.comBarry Estes The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,493
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,493 |
The wolves in MT, ID, and WY have had a huge impact on deer, elk, and moose populations. Only makes sense the yote will do the same here on our deer. There needs to be a good plan of attack to reduce the yote population. I am going to have to disagree with you on that. I am not saying that yotes do not have an impact on our deer. But IMO you cant not say if wolves are doing it then yotes will too... I think that because the wolves in Idaho (I will only refer to them as its all I have seen) are Canadian Grey wolves. (not the native Timber Wolf) They are extremely larger and kill just as much for thrill of the kill and hunt as they do for need to eat to stay alive... The one I ave full body mounted in my living room is 7 foot 8 inches long nose to tail between 130=150 pounds and about 6 - 8 years old. Now those are some pretty impressive numbers for a dog. And to my knowledge and experience I have never sen a yote that weighted over 60 pounds. I have not seen the carnage from yotes that the wolves produce from yotes either. I have not seen or heard anyone that has confirmed that yotes hunt for thrill and waste more than they eat. Now all that being said I still firmly believe in predator population control and will personally shoot every yapping yote I can ! My Idaho wolf shoot in 2009 
Playin string music
Hoyt Vector 32
Get Serious Get Hoyt
Alto, la migra means Stop, immigration in Spanish slang. They'll scatter like skittles dropped on a concrete floor. -Furflyin
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,713
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,713 |
Hmmmm... It's hard for me to visualize a yote passing up a vulnerable fawn even if he's not hungry.... which may be never.
I do believe that when the fawns start dropping, yotes turn into feeding frenzy predators with a specific target in mind.
I'm just speculating of course but I really do think that yotes have a significant impact on fawns and deer populations in given areas in Alabama.
There are certainly more yotes now than yesteryear (in Alabama) and there are more hogs here than yesteryear. Both have a negative impact on deer populations.
You could, on the other hand, reason that yotes are beneficial as they take out the sick, thus possibly limiting the spread of disease.
Regardless, I'm shooting every yote and hog I see and this coming hunting season, we'll highly monitor our deer herd via observations and skinning shed data collection.
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Joined: Dec 2011
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10 point
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10 point
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,493 |
Hmmmm... It's hard for me to visualize a yote passing up a vulnerable fawn even if he's not hungry.... which may be never.
I do believe that when the fawns start dropping, yotes turn into feeding frenzy predators with a specific target in mind.
I'm just speculating of course but I really do think that yotes have a significant impact on fawns and deer populations in given areas in Alabama.
There are certainly more yotes now than yesteryear (in Alabama) and there are more hogs here than yesteryear. Both have a negative impact on deer populations.
You could, on the other hand, reason that yotes are beneficial as they take out the sick, thus possibly limiting the spread of disease.
Regardless, I'm shooting every yote and hog I see and this coming hunting season, we'll highly monitor our deer herd via observations and skinning shed data collection. You very well may be correct that they go into a feeding frenzy... But my point is with a wolf the frenzy is nevr ending.... I would like to pose this question about yote populations... Are they really more now ? Or could it be we are just out their more with trail cams and less area for them to hide in ? I am in no way saying that you are wrong. I just wanted to make that clear that i was more responding to the wolf part
Playin string music
Hoyt Vector 32
Get Serious Get Hoyt
Alto, la migra means Stop, immigration in Spanish slang. They'll scatter like skittles dropped on a concrete floor. -Furflyin
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 11,356
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 11,356 |
I have no doubt there are more now.
I am sure some of the pros on here can tell us more about yote populations and their range.
Alabama Hog Control, Inc. www.alabamahogcontrol.comBarry Estes The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997 |
Metzler said the Wildlife Section is already looking to fund a three-year program of data collections from at least 15 sites scattered across the state's Coastal Plain, Black Belt and Piedmont regions.
That's the part I like about this program. It's not just south Alabama or counties with high population densities. Ray used to be the biologist at Wolf Creek WMA. I think he understands that this area is different in many ways from others across the state. 
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10 point
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10 point
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,713 |
SMB44, we're cool. No biggie. I believe you on the wolf part. That's a cool mount btw!
Are there more yotes today? I am 47.. or 46 or 45? Somewhere in there.... and I don't really remember seeing many yotes while hunting in Monroe county or even seeing many yotes in Escambia Co., where I grew up.
I hunted in Dallas Co last year and wow... the yotes, at dark are in all directions.
It just seems that hunters are reporting more yote sightings than ever before.
Looking forward to the study and its results.
Last edited by Bucktrot; 04/17/12 11:14 AM.
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Joined: Oct 2005
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Booner
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Booner
Joined: Oct 2005
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"What we're planning to do is not concentrated so much on coyote predation. We're more interested in seeing fawn recruitment data at multiple sites across the state," Metzler said.
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6 point
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6 point
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 877 |
Grew up in Clarke County.. and in 1972-74 the local postmaster Bob Ingram shot one in his pasture in Bashi...picture published in the Thomasville Times. I believe Robert Hill, who was our local game warden for forever, was also in the picture. It was the first in those parts as far as anyone could remember
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 21,997
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 21,997 |
You very well may be correct that they go into a feeding frenzy... But my point is with a wolf the frenzy is nevr ending....
I would like to pose this question about yote populations... Are they really more now ? Or could it be we are just out their more with trail cams and less area for them to hide in ?
I am in no way saying that you are wrong. I just wanted to make that clear that i was more responding to the wolf part isn't that one of the reasons for a majority timed fawn drop, outproduce the predators
“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 12,788
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 12,788 |
That is about right, Jay.
I am wondering how old some of these guys are who are asking if we think there are 'more' coyotes now than in the past???????
There were NONE in this area when I was a child. I had heard/seen them in OK and TX as a child while coon-hunting with my Dad. But, it was the early to mid-70's before I ever even heard one around here!!! I remember it; and all of us talking about it. We were in Putnam hunting with the care-taker of a large hunting property around some big cotton fields when one started howling at our dogs barking. That was the first any of us had ever heard or seen any sign of one anywhere around our parts!
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Joined: May 2000
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12 point
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12 point
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,969 |
Over the last 20 years, our local coyote population appears to have gone through several "boom and bust" cycles (for whatever reason). At times, fawn recruitment has followed these boom and bust coyote population trends (inversely related). However, ensuring considerable acreage in good fawning cover has seemed to mitigate the loss of fawns during some of the coyote "boom" cycles.
I really don't think I can have much of an impact on coyote populations by shooting the ones I see while deer hunting. Yet I do believe for those that have the skills, or the money to hire someone, coyote trapping focused just before fawning time appears to have real merit in improving fawn survival.
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10 point
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10 point
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,493 |
I am still a young man by many standerds. I am 24.. So that is why I was meraly posing the question that it could be possiable... For the reasons I listed above. I am in no way saying that i am correct. On the properties I have hunted over the last 10 years or so year I have never shot one while deer hunting. But I have smacked quite a few hunting for them. I am sure that more deer now days = more preditors.. That just makes to much sense... But I would think that your deer population has grown since the 70s which in turn has made more yotes come and stay in the area you are because of food.
Last edited by SMB44; 04/18/12 11:01 AM.
Playin string music
Hoyt Vector 32
Get Serious Get Hoyt
Alto, la migra means Stop, immigration in Spanish slang. They'll scatter like skittles dropped on a concrete floor. -Furflyin
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 21,997
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 21,997 |
Wolf packs take advantage of deer yards, our deer do not yard so to speak
been seeing yotes since I can recall, going back to at least the early 80's
I used to get all tore over yotes, seen and killed a few chasing mature deer, killed a few hunting turkeys, kill when I get a chance
maybe I'm a glass half full kinda guy
“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 11,356
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 11,356 |
I kill every yote I can while hunting other game. And yet I only kill 1 or 2 a year.
I do plan on hunting yotes this summer with my caller though. Hope to take out a few more with it.
Alabama Hog Control, Inc. www.alabamahogcontrol.comBarry Estes The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 41
spike
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spike
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 41 |
I try to take out every yote that I see whether deer, turkey hunting or just calling them in. Where we hunt at in western Ga and eastern AL our problems are with the yotes crossing with stray dogs that people like to dump out on the backroads. I have watched these coy-dogs team up to take a mature deer before. Yotes are not much of a pack hunter as the wolves are up north. I look at the yotes as being an opportunist in regards to their hunting. They will take the opportunity if it presents itself to take a newly born fawn, just as well as raiding a turkey nest if they have the chance.
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 12,788
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 12,788 |
I am still a young man by many standerds. I am 24.. So that is why I was meraly posing the question that it could be possiable... For the reasons I listed above. I am in no way saying that i am correct. On the properties I have hunted over the last 10 years or so year I have never shot one while deer hunting. But I have smacked quite a few hunting for them. I am sure that more deer now days = more preditors.. That just makes to much sense... But I would think that your deer population has grown since the 70s which in turn has made more yotes come and stay in the area you are because of food. I am honestly not picking on you...... BUT, there is no way in Hell there are more deer in this area now than there were in the 70's!!!!! Not even close!
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,999
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,999 |
Over the last 20 years, our local coyote population appears to have gone through several "boom and bust" cycles (for whatever reason). At times, fawn recruitment has followed these boom and bust coyote population trends (inversely related). However, ensuring considerable acreage in good fawning cover has seemed to mitigate the loss of fawns during some of the coyote "boom" cycles.
I really don't think I can have much of an impact on coyote populations by shooting the ones I see while deer hunting. Yet I do believe for those that have the skills, or the money to hire someone, coyote trapping focused just before fawning time appears to have real merit in improving fawn survival. This is the only control method that will work. On one tract in particular that I manage in St. Clair county, our recruitment levels ran around 40-50% from 2005-2008. We then started trying to remove coyotes by hunting while making changes to our landscape through burning, planting and various other techniques. We slightly increased our recruitment in 2009 with those techniques. In 2010 we began an intensive trapping program as well as hunting all predators and continuing our habitat management as in years past. We have seen a huge increase in the number of fawns observed with the mothers in food plots since. I have not put all the numbers together at this point but I would venture to say that we will be somewhere near 80% this year. The 2 KEYS are CONTINUOUS TRAPPING & PROPER FAWNING COVER I aint going to blow my whistle though I am very good at both but Gobbler is the man when it comes to these ^^ 2 things so there is a wealth of knowledge here when it comes to this topic
Last edited by NightHunter; 04/18/12 08:42 PM.
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Joined: Sep 2007
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10 point
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10 point
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,999 |
There were several comments in Steve's thread about needing more fawn recruitment studies in Alabama. The DCNR has some plans of it's own in that regard. Last week, Chris Cook met us on our lease to discuss our annual evaluation and recommendations. He asked us to participate in a program of expanded studies to collect more data on fawn recruitment. Here's a quote from an article in the Mobile paper by Jeff Dute with some information about their new program: ... The question still remaining, according to wildlife biologists, is whether those impacts exist across all Southeastern landscapes to the point that they must be considered by private and public deer managers when setting overall herd-management goals.
It's a question that Ray Metzler, Alabama's assistant Wildlife Section chief, said the state conservation department hopes to answer as part of a program focused on determining fawn survival rates.
"What we're planning to do is not concentrated so much on coyote predation. We're more interested in seeing fawn recruitment data at multiple sites across the state," Metzler said.
Metzler said the Wildlife Section is already looking to fund a three-year program of data collections from at least 15 sites scattered across the state's Coastal Plain, Black Belt and Piedmont regions.
"That has been identified as a need and we want to try to manage our resources based on good science," he said. "Coyote predation on fawns has been identified as an important issue that's been mentioned in more than one publication and we want to see if it's as big an issue statewide or if it is more of a localized problem."
Metzler said the data-collection process should begin in early 2013.
Link to article: Coyotes: A new player in deer management in the Southeast I have discussed this with Chris at lenght and they are working very hard at making some positive changes with our system and trying to get some good data. I will be providing them with multiple counties where they have holes in their maps. I hope all goes well with their plans. I am excited to get them on some of my good ground.
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