Aldeer.com Forums Alabama Deer Talk ALTurkey Talk -- Beards and Spurs April only - 3 bird proposal

first off I knew I could count on PCP to carry the load on my position on this! We don't, and I don't think we ever will, know how many turkeys we have in AL. We could, however, get some good estimates. A banding study across the state catching and banding thousands of birds would get 1) an excellent idea of what the percentage of gobblers are harvested each year and 2) after a couple years, provide some estimate of population, especially in conjunction with GC and the phone survey they do now. This should have been done years ago - cheap and easy. We don't have a statistically valid reproductive survey. There is a "observation" survey done but it is low participation and not valid. "Although it is not considered scientific data, results of the brood survey play a critical role in our assessment of turkey populations" from beards and spurs. Ive never seen the data and doubt there is any size to the sample. Many other states have done defined "routes" for years and have good data. We don't know the trajectory of the population (obviously) and, while I don't see as many as I used to and I believe we have generally fewer than 10 years ago, I don't see it as cause for alarm. Breeding Bird Survey, done for decades, say we are increasing. We don't know how, or if, gobbler harvest or timing effects poult production. I doubt there is ANY connection. We don't know how or if a later start date effects nesting and poult production, again, I doubt there is ANY relationship but I am open to the possibility. All the talk about dominant gobblers and their role in breeding and pecking order is simply speculation. Although I hear it and it sounds neat, there is NO data on this subject and any discussion of it is only one persons opinion. I have heard that the dominant gobbler does all the breeding and his removal upsets the "pecking order" and it takes time to restructure and get sub gobblers tuned up to breed. In the same presentation, I have heard the presenter say that some nests are fathered by more than one gobbler! WHAT? how is this possible, I asked! Just part of the program. That's why I say speculation - no publications on this although it would be well received by the scientific community if the data were there.

We do know predator control usually increases nest and poult production. We know good habitat management leads to increased turkey numbers. We know burning, good timber management, food plots, etc are good for turkeys. We know a lot about home ranges, habitat use, food habits, roost habitat, yearly and seasonal mortality and causes, seasonal movements, nesting and brood rearing habitat, predation, nest survival and, to some extent, poult survival.

So, if you disagree with the regulation change, flood the CAB (every member) with letters stating your opinion and send a copy to Chuck. Apparently only 2 letters were given to the CAB before this meeting and they were solicited to support the regulation changes. NO letters were sent against these changes. Make your voice known........ and use PCP's working and logic

For those wanting data: is this year 2 or 3 (or more) of the studies that have been ongoing on a few of the WMA's (delayed opening, telemetered birds)? Anybody know when the studies are supposed to wrap up?

Does sound like done deal for next Feb. meeting

So Alabama is the next Arkansas? Really? And it’s based on what data that who has collected over the last 7-8 years? I’m sorry, that’s sensational speculation. Fearmongering. Not very credible. And, even if it happens to be correct, it’s wreckless to state that without backing it up.

Great to see you posting here again, gobbler!

I too, had wondered about the theory that the hens have to fall in love with a new gobbler to breed him, and then the same guy posting from the same Facebook account that it is so important for the hens to breed multiple gobblers and increase the genetic diversity of each clutch. The two ideas seem to contradict each other, and made it look to me like he was looking for any sort of excuse to reduce hunting. Gotta give the guy credit though, he has gotten rich off all these turkey studies.

Here is a question you can probably answer that no other biologist will touch - is there a study from anywhere that shows that legal hunting of spring gobblers reduces poult recruitment? Forget about the season timing having an effect, I'm talking about hunting having any effect period. That seems to me to be one of the easier studies that could be made; count the poults in unhunted places, and then count them on similar land that is hunted. Has this ever been done?

I sent a letter to every member of the CAB back in January, and got only 2 responses. I guess they trashed them if they are claiming nobody contacted them. I will send out another round before next year's meeting. I hope everyone else will too.

For those wanting data: is this year 2 or 3 (or more) of the studies that have been ongoing on a few of the WMA's (delayed opening, telemetered birds)? Anybody know when the studies are supposed to wrap up?

Having trouble finding names and contact information for current cab members. Could someone please assist?

I have read those estimates they put out on GC compliance, but I've never seen them discuss their methodology for arriving at those numbers; do you know?

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Reducing the season days and the limit because the GC harvest was up 50% this past season kind of proves that this has nothing to do with the science.

Whoever has this info please post it so we all can contact them!

I’m not sure I’ve heard anything positive about the execution of these studies. I person even went so far to say that they wouldn’t make any management decisions based off of them. That person seemed very dismayed when I told him that they were being referenced by CAB members when talking about season and limit changes.

Definitely, contact everyone you can to voice your opinion. However, based on recent history, I’ve got a bad feeling about this one.

Look at the "board map"
https://www.outdooralabama.com/about-us/conservation-advisory-board

https://www.outdooralabama.com/research/hunter-survey-results

Since I can't seem to post a screenshot, look on 2016 and 2017 season of the mail in hunter survey results (the last year they did mail in) and ask yourself why the 2017 turkey season is highlighted and especially noted as the lowest spring harvest since 1981, the highest spring man-day harvest on record, and lowest spring harvest per hunter since 1982, BUT there is no note of this in the deer harvest which also was the lowest deer harvest since 1981, second highest man-days per harvest on record, highest man-days per harvest since 1981 and lowest harvest per hunter since 1981? Why wasn't there a note of this for Dove (2nd lowest harvest ever recorded), squirrel (lowest on record), rabbit (lowest on record), coon (2nd lowest harvest ever recorded), bobcat (lowest ever recorded) or woodcock (lowest ever recorded). Are we being manipulated?