Aldeer.com Forums Alabama Deer Talk ALTurkey Talk -- Beards and Spurs April only - 3 bird proposal

GC compliance is reported in the Annual Turkey report. See above. Snapper check numbers were reported to the CAB a year or so ago, and I was there in person. I will try to find the most recent numbers.

CAB meeting minutes state that SC compliance is at 51%. (https://www.outdooralabama.com/sites/default/files/02-29-2020%20CAB%20Minutes%20-%20Condensed_0.pdf)

So, as of now, GC vs. SC are not too far off. Feel bad about my first post now. I should have looked up the numbers rather than use my recollection.

Take out spring break and most kids will get little opportunity to hunt. It's important to get our kids involved. I don't care how much they limit the adults, but don't take what little time kids have to turkey hunt away from them. I have 2 boys at home and I assure you if they can only go a few times a season, they aren't going to give a rats ass about turkey hunting or the turkeys.

Maybe these data have something to do with the changes proposed:

2020 Season Totals

16,651 gobblers total harvest reported to Game Check

Private land: 15,228

Public land total: 1,423

WMA: 631

Federal: 401



2019 Season Totals

10,854 gobblers total harvest reported to Game Check

Private land: 9,875

Public land: 979

that's a big swing.

Population of species = who knows?
Number killed = 100% reported
Population remaining = who knows?

Killing more birds is a good thing. I’m not even sure how to spin that negative. They were gobblers, not hens.

So where’s the number for how many we had before those were killed? What is the magic number they are looking for to justify dropping the limit? I’m sure there are folks that don’t use game check but I also know several people that buy license every year and sometimes never kill a thing, are they just assuming that everyone that buys a license is killing stuff and not reporting it? I haven’t been turkey hunting near as long as several on here but in my experience the numbers are about the same in the 3-4 counties I hunt, some years are better than others but I haven’t seen a drastic decline. I will never understand how counting dead turkeys is a way of determining what shape the population is in

I lease just to turkey hunt. The food plots are planted with turkeys in mind as much as deer. Varmint trapping is geared at least as much toward getting nest robbers as fawn killers. I do report all harvests. My turkey numbers were strong when I got the place and are getting better. And now in just a couple of years, your gonna cut the season from 47 days to 30 days. Guys will either say screw it or will become outlaws. With boating and fishing ramping up, its going to make for a busy spring for the wardens.

My response will be more of a combination of the two

I have read those estimates they put out on GC compliance, but I've never seen them discuss their methodology for arriving at those numbers; do you know?

The only way I can think of would be to compare GC numbers to some other system that measures the harvest. I've seen nothing to indicate they still do the hunter survey; does anyone know? I have heard rumors of a telephone survey, but never seen that confirmed by the department. If they can confidently state the % of compliance with GC, then they have to have some other system for measuring the harvest, and if they have that, then why do they need GC? Many of us have believed from the start that GC was mainly just an enforcement tool.

Harvest numbers are not perfect for estimating populations, but it's always been one of the best tools we have, especially when you use the same methodology over many years. Things like weather can skew the results of a single season, but population trends should show up in harvest numbers. Of course, since Chuck publicly said that the hunter survey was "worthless", it's hard to see how they could use it now to determine GC compliance.

Reducing the season days and the limit because the GC harvest was up 50% this past season kind of proves that this has nothing to do with the science.

It makes no sense to start season later than March 15 in Baldwin County.

I would consider the 2020 season an anomaly due to higher hunter effort days. COVID meant many folks were off work and had more time to hunt turkeys. More hunters in the woods for more days resulted in a higher harvest for the 2020 season. Comparing 2019 results and 2020 results is apples to oranges.

I didn't real all this thread but I think most seasons, at least recently, my birds are pretty much done but the middle of April. If they want to do 4 weeks I don't know about that but I would at least keep the start date in March.

There are multiple ways to estimate a turkey, fish, deer's, etc. population. Obviously every bird, fish, deer etc. can't be counted in the wild. These stock assessments are done through multiple different models and sampling types, with each model being tweaked, improved, as science gets better and science/technology allows sampling techniques to improve. There are generally accepted two different ways to gather data. One is based on what I would call harvest rates - examine how many turkeys, deer, fish were taken, their size (if fish), vs. how many hours, days, etc. it took to catch/kill. Then estimate the number or stock of game/fish. Another is non-harvest data - gathered by actually counting fish/game in the wild over a certain area or areas and estimating the population. In fisheries mgt, it's called fisheries-dependent data vs. non-fisheries dependent data. Google it.

In my opinion, fishery/game managers often depend too much on harvest rates vs. effort (time). In fisheries management, it's called fishery-dependent data. More non-harvest dependent data is needed. The reason non-harvest data is not used as often is because it's more expensive, it's more labor-intensive, and it takes a concerted effort over many years to gather. Arguably, it's more accurate, however, or at least allows a manager to provide more accurate assessments - especially when it comes to fish.

In an ideal world, for harvest data, they would like to look for trends - is the harvest going up with the same or fewer hours being spent to harvest more (probably an indicator that the stock is doing well), or is the harvest going down with more hours spent trying to find the turkey, deer, fish (probably an indicator of stock decline).

I don't know exactly how they do the estimates in Alabama. The "Full Fans and Sharp Spurs - Wild Turkey Report" has some information in it. Apparently, they use both types of data - harvest, and non-harvest data. The last in-depth analysis I've seen on what data they gather and the estimated turkey population was in 2015 in a wild turkey report. Said we had 500,000 turkeys. I've seen quotes from DCNR folks saying that's slipped to 400,000, but no actual figures. I suppose we could just ask them, and they would tell us. If you want to know, send the Commissioner a polite email, and I bet someone will respond.

Troy can tell you about that population estimate on turkeys back when he was working. I think the acronym for it is WAG, but I'm not sure what that means.

damnitt Al, get a grip

I'll tell you how the DCNR did it in 1980...they called me and asked me how many deer/turkey/rabbits/skwerls were in Hale Co. True. Asked every other LEO GW in the state the same damn thing, then juggled the numbers and came up with the official numbers. Pretty damn scientific if ya ask me.

I watched a show, some time ago, but I can't remember what it was
Anyway, the narrator says, "there's 1.2 million rabbits in Kansas". Said it as if it was a proven fact.
I'm like, who the hell is counting rabbits in Kansas??? And how???

same way I did Mark, snatched a number out of my ass.

More than likely it is purely a function of Covid 19 and people being home and not at work.

Let’s say we know exactly how many turkeys there are in the state and the number of gobblers killed every year, to the very last one. At what point would reducing the per person limit of gobblers from 5 to 3 be needed? What’s that expected to accomplish?