Aldeer.com Forums Alabama Deer Talk Serious Deer Talk Forum New Fawn Research

So...........what is the end objective? Change the social order of deer habits so they all get equal bedding rights????????

Hope ya get the funding y'all need Steve. This does make me wonder. There are a lot of different types of annual and perennial weeds such as dog fennel that give off a strong odor that might mask the scent of a fawn. There is a small tract of property I hunt in Marion Jct. It is actually about a mile from the Auburn University Blackbelt Substation. Last year I noticed a clump of weeds that fawns particularly liked to lay in that was in the food plot. Figured it just gave them good cover but it might give em a cover scent as well. I left that part of the food plot untouched for that very reason.

If younger does move their fawns less frequently (and I'm not sure that is the case) it could be because they have fewer options of where to move them to, considering they may be religated to fawning territories with poorer-quality habitat (i.e. less available cover).

Didn't say I didn't believe ya, it was just teed up too high to not hit it

so the rule is we can/will just hit anything the other puts up?? thanks for the clarification.......

troy

BSK, do you think, or does your experience show you that younger does take as good a care of their fawns as older does do???

I wish there was a legal way to get rid of the dang coyotes. I know you can trap them, but if you live a good ways from the property you hunt it is almost impossible to run a leg hold trap line.

Honestly, I have seen no data either way. The only data I've seen is that older does produce more surviving fawns than younger does. But that's just common sense. Older, more experienced does should be better mothers than younger, less exerienced does.

There are some pretty good data from other deer species that indicate that fawns of older mothers have greater survival rates on a per fawn basis than fawns of younger mothers. With that being said, everything needs to be normalized in an analysis like this. For example...a 2 year old doe that tends to produce a single fawn will be producing much more milk/fawn than a 4 year old doe that will likely produce twins. So...examination of these factors requires large sample sizes and not a lot of studies have been able to correctly examine all the factors that influence fawn survival and tease out the effect of doe age.

Y'all are over thinkin this. Kill the coyotes and the young does and the old does fawns will survive. With smell or without smell.

I'd think that studying why we don't need more coyotes would be more beneficial to the fawn population. Whether the fawns smell or not, or whether the does are good moms or not, doesn't change the fact that coyotes are eating the fawns, and the rabbits, turkeys, quail, squirrels, and whatever else they can catch. I mean once you know if the smell is more or if the smell is less, bottom line is the coyotes are still catching fawns, RIGHT?

Kill the coyote, problem better.(not solved)

Good stuff Steve.

I am glad to support the project. Hope many more on here will also.

I've read a study that showed that older(4-5) does will have a much higher fawns survival rate than young first time does. I do not recall where study took place, but it was on whitetails.

Dr D. any data, numbers, amounts of milk produced by a two year old doe vs a five year old doe?? A 160 pound doe seems like she would produce more milk than a 90 pound doe??

I have literally spent thousands of hours in the woods on my feet(and butt) observing deer, a lot of that time in a 500 acre enclosure studying fawn survival and coyote predation up to 8-10 hours a day for weeks/months at fawning time. My personal experience tells me that young does do not tend to their fawns as often as they need to, making the young fawns get up and walk around beeping, a sure fire yote attractant. Young does don't move their fawns as frequently or as far as older(smarter/more experienced) does will. Young does will frequently move only one of a set of twins.

troy,

How often would the does choose areas like grown up food plots for fawning?

Do you recommend mowing plots that are only planted in the fall before the fawning period or not? I know the turkeys like the bugs in them, but are they good cover for new fawns?

Eddie, I'd say it would depend on the surrounding habitat compared to the height of the food plot plants. No reason they wouldn't choose the cover of a food plot.

We're talking fawns using them in July, Aug mostly. If ya normally plant in late Sept, early Oct it won't matter as long as ya watch for the fawns.

One thing I've seen folks do that bushhog in July/Aug is to weld pieces of chain to a bar and hang it in front of the tractor so that the chain drags the ground. Makes the fawn jump up and run. Carry a rifle for yotes.....

But where will they go after it's been mowed?

If the plot won't be planted until fall, wouldn't it be better to mow after the fawning period if we are trying to allow the population to recover?

I'm sure there are data out there, and I'm pretty sure/know that I have seen data that say the following.

(1) Deer in better condition produce more milk than deer in lesser condition (I have seen these data).

(2) Older deer produce more milk than younger deer. (I believe I have seen these data. But, a young doe in good condition may produce more milk than an older doe in poor condition)

(3) Does with two fawns will produce more milk than those with one fawn. But, not twice as much: there is less milk per fawn from the doe with twins.

An understanding of how things happen (not just what is happening) is the basis for understanding complex problems, and this level of understanding serves as the foundation to addressing complex problems. The only way to learn the complexities of the situation is to investigate them. Hopefully, such studies advance our understanding and in some way help in the development of solutions.

I'm not sure a study designed to examine "why we don't need more coyotes" would tell us much.

thanks Dr D, yer answers follow what I've seen over the years...

troy

I hope the grad student is taking notes here.