Aldeer.com Forums Alabama Deer Talk Serious Deer Talk Forum New Fawn Research

All:

We are in the process of starting a new research project at our Camp Hill DeerLab. The intent of this research is to examine the "belief/myth" about whether or not fawns have an odor. We believe that they do (and are pretty confident in that belief), but wanted to test the idea scientifically, and also examine the manner in which the odor of a fawn may be transmitted to potential predators. This sort of information is integral to fully understanding the manner in which coyotes find fawns, and the degree to which our management practices may influence fawn survival.

To do this, we will be using dogs from the Auburn University EcoDog program late this summer. However, the cost of using these dogs is considerable and we do not have a funding source. This project has been accepted by a group that does "Crowd Source Funding". This sort of funding taps into the general public for financial support.

The way this works is...someone looks at the possible projects to support, and pledges an amount that they would like to contribute to the project. If the pledges reach the amount needed ($5,000 minimum in our case), then the project is funded. However, if the pledges do not meet the level of support required for the project, then the project is not funded.

I am posting this on here because I know most (if not all of you) are interested in deer, coyotes, and the degree to which coyote predation may influence deer populations. If you are possibly interested in helping to make this project become a reality, then go to the link below to learn more about it. If you choose to support it, then you have our thanks. I understand that not everyone has the means or desire to support deer research, so please don't interpret this posting as any sort of expectation. I'm just trying to get the word out, and would ask each of you to pass this along. The more people that hear about it, the greater the probability of it being funded.

Here is the link: Deer Project

I'll monitor this posting on and off to be able to answer any questions that people might have. Also, if you want, you can send me a private message.

Thanks,

Steve

if it's the fawn that picks THE place to hide why do younger does have a higher fawn loss than older fawns? Seems it's more on the doe than the fawn.

Younger does will not move a fawn as often or as far as an older doe will, thus allowing scent to "build up" in small area, allowing the coyote to better smell the fawn.

I believe, know, newborn fawns have a scent, but not much.

hope ya get funded fully and quickly.

troy

Thanks Steve!

Dr Kroll said on a new segment of Growing Deer Tv that a recent study in North Alabama that has been going on for a couple years
just came back and that there was a 70 percent death rate for fawns after birth if I heard it right , if thats really true people need to be very careful of their doe harvest .

Hasn't anyone ever picked up a fawn and smelled it?

I would think if I can smell them, the coyotes can too!

This seems like a waste of time............

the dogs are having a tough time pinpointing the fawns because they are picking up only a faint scent. My drug dog, Taz, did the same thing dope hunting when I hid it in the fridge behind the week old beans. Eventually she's zero in on the spot.

Does will normally spend time nursing AND licking/cleaning a new fawn to remove any waste or scent from that fawn.. then the fawn will lay still till she returns.

Shuter, I picked up a newborn fawn once upon a time, handled the chit out of it .....they do have a very faint scent.

To say an animal is odorless is like saying there is a place in the universe without any gravity. Its an impossibility. The question is; Is a fawns odor significant enough for a Coyote (or whatever animal you choose) to detect it.

Also, what variability is there in the odor level among fawns? Is that something that can be regulated by the mother doe? Diet? etc...

The intent of the research isn't to determine if they have an odor. As I indicated, we know they do...even though it hasn't been documented scientifically. The major focus of the research is to understand the manner in which a fawn's odor spreads around the fawn. Do fawns select sites to bed where their odor doesn't spread as easily? We seem to have some preliminary evidence that suggests that they do just this.

We actually think the opposite is occurring. When a fawn is bedded in an area where the dog is able to smell it from a much greater distance (open areas where the breeze moves more steadily), the dog can just follow the scent trail to the fawn. But, in some closed, thick areas where air movement is stifled, the dogs have a very difficult time. They walk all over the fawn but can often not determine exactly where it is. We think that in these situations the odor of the fawn is extremely strong everywhere and the dogs can't work from a weaker to stronger scent source and thus locate the fawn.

We're up to $625 after just the first day. Keep spreading the word.

seven years of owning and working probably the best drug dog in Alabama I have to disagree with that.

what kind of dogs are going to be used???

any Belgian Malinous??? very smart, great noses, and they look like yotes....

Our theories are based on the thoughts of the dog trainers at Auburn. Some of these guys have over 30 years of experience in training detection dogs (drug dogs, bomb dogs, and ecodogs), and are contracted by the federal government for the development of these dogs because of their abilities in understanding how and why detection dogs do what they do.

I think the majority of the dogs that they use are labs.

One theory, and I believe one of the best theories, concerns the territoriality of does and their social dominance status at fawning time. Doe social groups break up at fawning time with each pregnant doe finding, establishing, and defending her own fawning territory. Does higher on the dominance list (older does) get first choice of fawning territories, while does lower on the social ladder (younger does) get "whatever is left over," which usually involves lower quality fawning territory. These lower-quality fawning areas may be lower quality because of a lack of good cover, hence fawns from the younger, less dominant does would fall to preditors more often, as they are attempting to hide in poorer quality cover habitat.

Yea, but they haven't handled as many fawns as Troy (or had the best drug dog in Al) Shoulda had him as a consultant to straighten y'all out (note smiley faces!)

I am definatly not an expert about dogs,especially drug type dogs,but I have been hunting deer with dogs since I was a kid in Miss. back in the 60's.Different breeds of dogs hunt differnt ways.I have seen dogs circle all around and thru an area before finding the deer,and I have seen dogs go straight to deer.If there is a difference in the way domesticated dogs hunt,surely there is a difference in the way a predatory animal hunts.I am glad to see there is a study on this matter because it is becoming a real problem.

BSK,




In areas of low or moderate population density, I believe the indiscriminate killing of does is foolish. Female social groups have their natural purposes.

don't start gobbler an there won't be enny.....

I understand what yer saying Dr. D, I just disagree with why the dogs does what he does. I hope the research is able to find some answers.

I agree with the younger does getting the less desirable fawning habitat as being part of the reason their fawns suffer a higher loss to predators , but their actions, or lack of actions, has a large impact on their fawns survival.

troy

just fer gobbler...about the dogs. I know ya can't let an opp to rag me go by but I am serious about the dogs ability. Her father was a K-9 in Mandeville La, I went there and bought the pup at seven weeks with my money. Her father, Barry, won the National Narcotics Detector Dog competition in El Paso Tx, beating the best that Customs and Border Patrol, and all others, had to offer. Beat em bad. My dog, Taz, was just as good according to Barrys owner.

troy