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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 37,396 Likes: 66
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 37,396 Likes: 66 |
a buck that suffers a broken leg will have a jacked up rack the next year, and usually the next. By year three it will return to normal in my experience.
I've spent most of the money I've made in my lifetime on hunting and fishing. The rest I just wasted.....
proud Cracker-Americaan
muslims are like coyotes, only good one is a dead one
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 57,350 Likes: 113
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 57,350 Likes: 113 |
Seems like there was a bumper crop of SOUS bucks this year on my lease and apparently in a lot of other places too. I had one camera with 3 of them in the same pic. I treat them like any other buck in the woods. They'll get a pass until they are 4.5. or older. Hunted some property years ago around the Zimco area (Clarke County) and we would kill several every year with a dagger on one side, hell we just called 'em Zimco Bucks lol
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,998 Likes: 2
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,998 Likes: 2 |
Studies have shown, aside from obvious genetics, diet, etc. that one of the biggest factors affecting a buck's antlers and growth is epigenetic factors, such as nutrition of the mother while carrying the buck.
Scientist and Author, Fly Fishing for Redeye Bass: An Adventure Across Southern Waters and Alabama's Best Fly Fishing
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"I do not hunt turkeys because I want to, I hunt them because I have to." - Tom Kelly
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,629 Likes: 1
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,629 Likes: 1 |
I have shot a couple of 200 pound, 4+ year old "culls" like that on our property over the years. They were culls because i thought they were whipping everything else's ass and I felt like they were keeping other good bucks off our place- not because i thought i was helping the genetic pool on that land. Oh, and their was a lot of cube steak and jerky involved!! I make it a point to shoot big old mean does. I usually get at least one a year. They run all the other does out of the field, I hate a bully so they got to get in the freezer.
I love my country, but don't trust my government.
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,517
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,517 |
I did read a study few days ago that was done in Texas that tracked 385 bucks over a bunch of years. It said Out of those 385 bucks the ones that had no brow tines on there first full rack at either 1 or 2 never grew any brow tines.
Last edited by mike35549; 02/12/20 07:24 PM.
If you're gonna be stupid you better be tough.
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 184
3 point
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3 point
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 184 |
If it’s what most antler deformations are,a damaged pedicle,then no. The base of his skull is all jacked up and that’s what promotes the funky antler.
Shooting this deer is not going to improve you herds genetics but will free up some available food which may in turn help out.
Believe it or not, once had a guy tell me that even if that was so...and he didn't for one minute believe that SOOS was the result of injury but was convinced it was genetic and didn't care what no research said... BUT that if it was an injury, if the deer bred that year he was going to pass on that gene that year. He believed there was a "temporary injury gene" that a buck could pass on.
Last edited by 280REM; 02/19/20 03:04 PM.
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,922
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,922 |
You should have sold him some ocean-front property in Arizona...
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 8,032
14 point
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14 point
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 8,032 |
I identify culls on our place but only try to place them on the cull list once they reach 3.5 to 4.5 years of age. We do not cull young buck regardless of the characteristics of their rack. I killed two culls last season that were mature deer, both weighed over 200lbs and were not going to get any better than what they were. Glad their genes are out of the pool now. Unfortunately, the one we called Clubber must have been busy as we have several little Clubbers running around now.
"Don't cling to Mistake, just because you spent a lot of time making it."
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 10,586 Likes: 2
Lucky Bastage
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Lucky Bastage
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 10,586 Likes: 2 |
I identify culls on our place but only try to place them on the cull list once they reach 3.5 to 4.5 years of age. We do not cull young buck regardless of the characteristics of their rack. I killed two culls last season that were mature deer, both weighed over 200lbs and were not going to get any better than what they were. Glad their genes are out of the pool now. Unfortunately, the one we called Clubber must have been busy as we have several little Clubbers running around now. Or maybe it’s that old nanny doe, that pops out twins every year, that y’all keep passing on, that’s the one carrying the traits for the little clubbers. 
The fool tells me his reasons; the wise man persuades me with my own.
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Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 1,876
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 1,876 |
I identify culls on our place but only try to place them on the cull list once they reach 3.5 to 4.5 years of age. We do not cull young buck regardless of the characteristics of their rack. I killed two culls last season that were mature deer, both weighed over 200lbs and were not going to get any better than what they were. Glad their genes are out of the pool now. Unfortunately, the one we called Clubber must have been busy as we have several little Clubbers running around now. Cull or not, any buck taken at 3.5 or older has already left his mark and passed his genetics to multiple fawns.
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,951 Likes: 1
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,951 Likes: 1 |
I identify culls on our place but only try to place them on the cull list once they reach 3.5 to 4.5 years of age. We do not cull young buck regardless of the characteristics of their rack. I killed two culls last season that were mature deer, both weighed over 200lbs and were not going to get any better than what they were. Glad their genes are out of the pool now. Unfortunately, the one we called Clubber must have been busy as we have several little Clubbers running around now. Or maybe it’s that old nanny doe, that pops out twins every year, that y’all keep passing on, that’s the one carrying the traits for the little clubbers. Great point jbatey! . She will have to keep popping those twins though. I aint shooting a big ole breeder.
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,951 Likes: 1
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,951 Likes: 1 |
I identify culls on our place but only try to place them on the cull list once they reach 3.5 to 4.5 years of age. We do not cull young buck regardless of the characteristics of their rack. I killed two culls last season that were mature deer, both weighed over 200lbs and were not going to get any better than what they were. Glad their genes are out of the pool now. Unfortunately, the one we called Clubber must have been busy as we have several little Clubbers running around now. Its cool when you got an ole cull you have around long enough to name. We had one called "sausage" a few years ago. Could never quite catch up with him. Father time probably did.
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Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 1,015
6 point
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6 point
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 1,015 |
Wish I knew how to post pics... Was on a hunt 3 years ago. I was told to shoot a certain "cull" buck. I did, and got a cool European mount for my efforts. His undamaged side was truly a trophy. When I looked closer, the bad side had pedicle damage.
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 5,050
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 5,050 |
Maybe it’s crazy, but I’ve never shot a deer as a “cull”. Honestly, has never crossed my mind when shooting a deer.
"Here, take this land mine and protect your property with it."
-Ron Swanson
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 29,088 Likes: 86
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 29,088 Likes: 86 |
Can we at least all acknowledge at this point that it has been proven that you can't change anything about genetics no matter which one you shoot or if you shoot everyone you ever see......it doesn't change anything. I'm just surprised to still hear so many folks that talk about taking a deer out to get those genetics off the property or out of the herd, etc.....I hear a good bit out tracking for people and on here as well. I don't think this is really a matter of opinion anymore to where we can just believe it to be so because that's what makes sense to me. At some point you have to acceptt what the science and data tells us over opinions passed around the campfire.
Last edited by CNC; 02/21/20 10:50 PM.
Folks that know don't shoot old does........ 
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 29,088 Likes: 86
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 29,088 Likes: 86 |
I'll add a pic to the thread...….this is the biggest bodied deer I've ever seen in person as well. Didn't see it on any scales or anything but I've seen a good many bucks now in the 200-220 lb range and the one in the pic looked noticeably bigger to me than any of those without a doubt. Also probably very fortunate that its still probably the best bay job Otis has ever pulled off on one. He charged him several times too but Otis kept enough distance between them that he never got hit by that spear this big joker was carrying around on him. A buck that size with a dagger like that could kill a dog in a heartbeat, I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't gore a few bucks during his life as well if he carried this kind of rack for years ![[Linked Image]](https://i.imgur.com/r3HRB6K.jpg)
Last edited by CNC; 02/21/20 11:02 PM.
Folks that know don't shoot old does........
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780 |
Taking injury out all together and looking at genes determine culls. If you kill a cull, the way yearling buck dispersal works, isn't daddy cull and momma cull are off somewhere else steadily replacing the culls....and then some. So just looking at genes if that were the case, all shooting a cull improves is your neighbors genes, not yours. I don't mean neighbors as next door neighbors but neighbors a couple miles away or better.
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 9,877
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 9,877 |
unique trophies IMO., esp. when mature
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,538 Likes: 19
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,538 Likes: 19 |
I hunted a tract on the Alabama River in Clarke County back in 1990. Every deer there had a spike on one side or the other. I Killed one that had 6 on the right and a 5" spike sticking straight up on the left. If he would have matched the right he would have scored close to 140". He was a stud by all means except for the spike. Rack hangs in the shop as we speak and more folks comment about him than any other. His left side just didn't grow. Goofiest racks I have ever seen came off that tract.
I can't stand a thief.
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 29,088 Likes: 86
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 29,088 Likes: 86 |
Taking injury out all together and looking at genes determine culls. If you kill a cull, the way yearling buck dispersal works, isn't daddy cull and momma cull are off somewhere else steadily replacing the culls....and then some. So just looking at genes if that were the case, all shooting a cull improves is your neighbors genes, not yours. I don't mean neighbors as next door neighbors but neighbors a couple miles away or better. I'll.take that even a step further and say that the neighbors 2 miles away didn't benefit either. Buck dispersal is if we took it all and put in a big bag, shake the hell out of it, and then sling it randomly across the landscape. The neighbors still get the same random influx that you get.
Folks that know don't shoot old does........
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