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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 39,582
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 39,582 |
Hogwild, I usually respect your opinion on things, but you've about gone off the deep end over this thing.
You might convince people of your side easier if you start using rational reasoning and quit calling the people who don't agree with you hypocrites.
If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 12,788
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 12,788 |
I don't have a side!!!
It is not up to me to decide what is legal and what isn't. But, this supposed 'Ethics' stance that many are taking IS hypocritical if they call hunting going and climbing into a shooting house over a planted field of winter forage!!!!
My goodness, how can anyone argue that????
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,676
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,676 |
Oh no, Gobbler has drawn the pines on us!
"Why do you ask"?
Always vote the slowest path to socialism.
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,254
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,254 |
Oh no, Gobbler has drawn the pines on us!  It's a sign that the argument presented here is circular - time to hijack 
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 39,582
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 39,582 |
the argument presented here is circular I haven't been here a year yet, and I think that is the case with most all arguments on here.
If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,539
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,539 |
So if a guy baits a deer which may endanger a deer, he should pay a fine of $5000. That is right at 20% of the percapita income in Alabama. If you look at the rural counties where most of the deer hunting takes place, it is no doubt well more than 20% of the per capita income.
I guess if you can't afford to pay the fine then you shouldn't break the law...kind of my point. I'll concede that 5k is steep (if I ever mentioned 5k in the first place) for baiting, first offense, BUT when was the last time the fine went up? Paying $250-$500 in 2012 for something perceived as magical to the lazy hunter as baiting isn't going to make many of them stop doing it. Also, should go without saying that just because the hunting is done in rural areas doesn't mean that most hunters live in those rural areas and/ or are barely making ends meet. If someone does hunt and doesn't make enough money to pay the fine then my advice would be not to bait... that self responsibility thing is a crazy concept 
Last edited by truedouble; 02/17/12 10:47 PM.
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 21,982
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 21,982 |
supplemental feeding should be your backup plan, in case of acorn crop failure, drought, etc. NOT your primary source of high protein food. Primary should be two season planting plots and fertilization of natural browse. David Morris proved this in Ga many years ago at Burnt Pine Plantation Technically supplemental feeding does not replace a failed acorn crop since supp feed mostly is used in the growing season. Agree with primary plan except fertilizing native browse aint going to do much, nor are 2 season foodplots with the percentage of land they make up in most of Alabama. Managing native HABITAT is primary. Thinning, burning, pines... Imagine that this habitat is capable of producing trophy bucks. Lots of people knew it before Dave Morris proved it.   very true I remember QDMA really getting jacked up managing habitat at with fire
Last edited by cartervj; 02/17/12 10:42 PM.
“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 21,982
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 21,982 |
TRUE!!!
And anything else artificially manipulated is BAIT!
maybe but a food plot can be used 24/7 a spin cast feeder can be set to condition the animals to when feed time is I remember turkey hunting Texas, couldn't bring myself to hunt by those feeders, the irony was the bowhunters that hunted the first 2 weeks considered themselves better hunters since they used bow and arrow but hunted over feeders. The number 1 thing that stuck with me that whole trip, pigs would come running from all directions at the sound of the feeders going off when I tripped them. Scart the chit out of me the first time I set them off, those mesquites are not very tall. I've seen turkeys and deer become really conditioned to an almost immediate response at the sound or timing. First come first serve, they rush in to feed before it's gone. Remember those chickens and pigeons that peck certain buttons for food. What do those cows do when they see the farmers truck in the winter time. There is no way fields versus feeders are the same, and where does it stop, no tree stands, no scent shield, no firearms, only spears. At what point does the hypocrisy go away?
“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,539
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,539 |
supplemental feeding should be your backup plan, in case of acorn crop failure, drought, etc. NOT your primary source of high protein food. Primary should be two season planting plots and fertilization of natural browse. David Morris proved this in Ga many years ago at Burnt Pine Plantation Technically supplemental feeding does not replace a failed acorn crop since supp feed mostly is used in the growing season. Agree with primary plan except fertilizing native browse aint going to do much, nor are 2 season foodplots with the percentage of land they make up in most of Alabama. Managing native HABITAT is primary. Thinning, burning, pines... Imagine that this habitat is capable of producing trophy bucks. Lots of people knew it before Dave Morris proved it. TRUE!!! And anything else artificially manipulated is BAIT! But managing native habitat for wildlife is artificially manipulating the land, isn't it? So is hunting a burned pine stand the same as hunting over a corn pile? I guess to some it is.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,539
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,539 |
supplemental feeding should be your backup plan, in case of acorn crop failure, drought, etc. NOT your primary source of high protein food. Primary should be two season planting plots and fertilization of natural browse. David Morris proved this in Ga many years ago at Burnt Pine Plantation Technically supplemental feeding does not replace a failed acorn crop since supp feed mostly is used in the growing season. Agree with primary plan except fertilizing native browse aint going to do much, nor are 2 season foodplots with the percentage of land they make up in most of Alabama. Managing native HABITAT is primary. Thinning, burning, pines... Imagine that this habitat is capable of producing trophy bucks. Lots of people knew it before Dave Morris proved it. TRUE!!! And anything else artificially manipulated is BAIT! But managing native habitat for wildlife is artificially manipulating the land, isn't it? So is hunting a burned pine stand the same as hunting over a corn pile? I guess to some it is. No body can claim to be a purist anymore but it is and always will be a weak argument that feeders and foodplots are the same thing. Sure they could both be considered as bait, but a feeder used during deer season is only bait, nothing else. A foodplot is much more than just bait. Feeders are also much more effective when it comes to killing deer.
Last edited by truedouble; 02/17/12 10:51 PM.
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12 point
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12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
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But managing native habitat for wildlife is artificially manipulating the land, isn't it? So is hunting a burned pine stand the same as hunting over a corn pile? I guess to some it is. No body can claim to be a purist anymore but it is and always will be a weak argument that feeders and foodplots are the same thing. Sure they could both be considered as bait, but a feeder used during deer season is only bait, nothing else. A foodplot is much more than just bait. Feeders are also much more effective when it comes to killing deer.
It is not, imo, "artificially" manipulating the land but mimicking how the land was when human influence was limited and God burned the southeast each year. I would believe that feeders are NOT more effective for killing, however a food plot is not too far from a corn pile when it comes to hunting.
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,180
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,180 |
So if a guy baits a deer which may endanger a deer, he should pay a fine of $5000. That is right at 20% of the percapita income in Alabama. If you look at the rural counties where most of the deer hunting takes place, it is no doubt well more than 20% of the per capita income.
I guess if you can't afford to pay the fine then you shouldn't break the law...kind of my point. I'll concede that 5k is steep (if I ever mentioned 5k in the first place) for baiting, first offense, BUT when was the last time the fine went up? Paying $250-$500 in 2012 for something perceived as magical to the lazy hunter as baiting isn't going to make many of them stop doing it. Also, should go without saying that just because the hunting is done in rural areas doesn't mean that most hunters live in those rural areas and/ or are barely making ends meet. If someone does hunt and doesn't make enough money to pay the fine then my advice would be not to bait... that self responsibility thing is a crazy concept I didn't say the 5K number you through out would not be a deterrent. I'm just wondering where you go from there. If 5K for endangering a deer, what is the fine for endangering a human (like speeding)?
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,942
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,942 |
Sure they could both be considered as bait, but a feeder used during deer season is only bait, nothing else. A foodplot is much more than just bait. LOL! Have mercy. Why don't you folks spouting stuff like this just speak the truth for once. Here, let me help you. Repeat these following statements. "I think corn feeders are wrong simply because I've always been told they are wrong and I've never had the intellectual gumption to ask WHY?"AND "I think green patches are OK because I myself have hunted over them and therefore I will NEVER NEVER NEVER admit that there is actually no ethical different between them and a feeder because then I would be exposing myself as the massive hypocrite I actually am." Some of you folks are in such a deep state of denial psychiatrists should be filming you as you discuss this topic for use as a future training guide in how to deal with people suffering from severe self delusion. Still haven't heard one example of how it's more difficult; requires more skill; or adheres to a higher standard of ethics to hunt over a patch vs a feeder. You hear a lot of diversion about nutrition and other nonsense but never an explanation of what makes one ethical vs the other.
Last edited by Todd1700; 02/18/12 01:37 PM.
The best index to a person’s character is (a) how he treats people who can’t do him any good, and (b) how he treats people who can’t fight back.
- Abigail van Buren
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 12,788
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 12,788 |
Aawwwww.......Come on, Todd!
You know that you have to have a $50,000 4x4 truck, a $10,000 atv, at least $1000 worth of camo, the BEST scent-killer, an ozone machine AND a therma-cell, a $1000 gun with a $3000 scope on it, a member of a $2000/yr Club and be a regular Davy Crockett type outdoorsman to be able to walk 200 yds to a food plot and climb into the shooting house and shoot a doe!!!
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 37,027
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 37,027 |
hunting over corn piles is unethical because Charles Kelly said it was and he carries way more weight than you do Todd.....
next question....
I've spent most of the money I've made in my lifetime on hunting and fishing. The rest I just wasted.....
proud Cracker-Americaan
muslims are like coyotes, only good one is a dead one
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 12,788
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 12,788 |
LOL
He also didn't want people hunting the Peak of the Rut OR the peak of the breeding season for turkeys.....
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,942
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,942 |
Aawwwww.......Come on, Todd!
You know that you have to have a $50,000 4x4 truck, a $10,000 atv, at least $1000 worth of camo, the BEST scent-killer, an ozone machine AND a therma-cell, a $1000 gun with a $3000 scope on it, a member of a $2000/yr Club and be a regular Davy Crockett type outdoorsman to be able to walk 200 yds to a food plot and climb into the shooting house and shoot a doe!!!
I guess you are right. Why hell it takes a pretty experienced woodsman to work the latch on a shooting house door. And don't even get me started on the learning curve for dealing with those plexiglass windows. That s### can take years to master. LOL!
The best index to a person’s character is (a) how he treats people who can’t do him any good, and (b) how he treats people who can’t fight back.
- Abigail van Buren
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,539
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,539 |
Sure they could both be considered as bait, but a feeder used during deer season is only bait, nothing else. A foodplot is much more than just bait. LOL! Have mercy. Why don't you folks spouting stuff like this just speak the truth for once. Here, let me help you. Repeat these following statements. "I think corn feeders are wrong simply because I've always been told they are wrong and I've never had the intellectual gumption to ask WHY?"AND "I think green patches are OK because I myself have hunted over them and therefore I will NEVER NEVER NEVER admit that there is actually no ethical different between them and a feeder because then I would be exposing myself as the massive hypocrite I actually am." Some of you folks are in such a deep state of denial psychiatrists should be filming you as you discuss this topic for use as a future training guide in how to deal with people suffering from severe self delusion. Still haven't heard one example of how it's more difficult; requires more skill; or adheres to a higher standard of ethics to hunt over a patch vs a feeder. You hear a lot of diversion about nutrition and other nonsense but never an explanation of what makes one ethical vs the other.  ok Genius, if their is no advantage to hunting over bait then why do so many of you want to make it legal? I agree you can kill does all day long on a foodplot (another great reason to have foodplots) but I don't think that's really what baiters are after. Putting a timed spin cast feeder in the middle of a buck's core area in the middle of a thicket or hardwood stand, etc. and hunting over it is more advantageous than hunting a wide open foodplot. By the way why does B&C not recognize bucks killed over bait, but they do recognize bucks killed on a foodplot? Separate discussion but just saying you might want to tell the B&C guys that they need to see a shrink as well... As for mature bucks coming to bait during the day time, I've had a lot of 3 year olds and in the past few years two mature bucks a mid 140 and a 160 that habitually came to corn all summer and early fall during the day, 3-5 days per week morning and afternoon. They continued to come to the corn up until the first of Oct. cause I quit putting it out. There is not doubt in my mind that had I continued to put out corn I could have killed both of these bucks during the 1st few days of bow season, assuming the wind was right. This might not have happened on a piece of land with a lot of pressure where a lot of young bucks are killed but this scenario is not uncommon on private land with low hunting pressure.
Last edited by truedouble; 02/18/12 02:50 PM.
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,942
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Mar 2003
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hunting over corn piles is unethical because Charles Kelly said it was and he carries way more weight than you do Todd.....
That's why it's illegal. Still not in any way an explanation of how it's ethically any different that sitting over a patch. I'm a strong advocate of obeying the law. But that in no way means that we don't have stupid and inconsistent ones.
The best index to a person’s character is (a) how he treats people who can’t do him any good, and (b) how he treats people who can’t fight back.
- Abigail van Buren
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 12,788
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 12,788 |
Sure they could both be considered as bait, but a feeder used during deer season is only bait, nothing else. A foodplot is much more than just bait. LOL! Have mercy. Why don't you folks spouting stuff like this just speak the truth for once. Here, let me help you. Repeat these following statements. "I think corn feeders are wrong simply because I've always been told they are wrong and I've never had the intellectual gumption to ask WHY?"AND "I think green patches are OK because I myself have hunted over them and therefore I will NEVER NEVER NEVER admit that there is actually no ethical different between them and a feeder because then I would be exposing myself as the massive hypocrite I actually am." Some of you folks are in such a deep state of denial psychiatrists should be filming you as you discuss this topic for use as a future training guide in how to deal with people suffering from severe self delusion. Still haven't heard one example of how it's more difficult; requires more skill; or adheres to a higher standard of ethics to hunt over a patch vs a feeder. You hear a lot of diversion about nutrition and other nonsense but never an explanation of what makes one ethical vs the other. ok Genius, if their is no advantage to hunting over bait then why do so many of you want to make it legal? I agree you can kill does all day long on a foodplot (another great reason to have foodplots) but I don't think that's really what baiters are after. Putting a timed spin cast feeder in the middle of a buck's core area in the middle of a thicket or hardwood stand, etc. and hunting over it is more advantageous than hunting a wide open foodplot. By the way why does B&C not recognize bucks killed over bait, but they do recognize bucks killed on a foodplot? Separate discussion but just saying you might want to tell the B&C guys that they need to see a shrink as well... As for mature bucks coming to bait during the day time, I've had a lot of 3 year olds and in the past few years two mature bucks a mid 140 and a 160 that habitually came to corn all summer and early fall during the day, 3-5 days per week morning and afternoon. They continued to come to the corn up until the first of Oct. cause I quit putting it out. There is not doubt in my mind that had I continued to put out corn I could have killed both of these bucks during the 1st few days of bow season, assuming the wind was right. This might not have happened on a piece of land with a lot of pressure where a lot of young bucks are killed but this scenario is not uncommon on private land with low hunting pressure. Please check up on your facts before spouting off. It will prevent Athlete's Foot of the Mouth!!!! BAITING
Trophies taken with the aid of bait are eligible for entry in the Clubs Awards Programs and listing in the records books so long as the practice is legal in the state or province where the trophy was taken.
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