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32 members (BeakBuster1500, Okalona, farmerjay, James, AU338MAG, inatree, odocoileus, Tigger85, sw1002, UncleHuck, deerhunter_1, TamaDrumhead, BAR1225, Willyb, RareBreed, Pocosin, leroyb, fish251, BearBranch, burbank, dave260rem!, 1hunter, CNC, paintrock, remlap, RSF, donia, 5 invisible),
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Key:
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,417 Likes: 16
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,417 Likes: 16 |
This is why I’ve always been against large scale, late season burning. I agree, especially since you said "large scale." Mr. Sykes addressed that issue in his last column in the Co-op magazine. He essentially said that they knew that they were destroying nests, but the improvement in habitat was worth the sacrifice..I have done May burns on blocks of less than 100 acres and thought it was worth it. But there has to be a size at which the sacrifice is too much. Got an opinion on what that might be?[/quote] It's hard to say what that acreage would be. To me, it would be a case by case basis. For instance, I think even the 100 acres or less burns can be counterproductive if the surrounding habitat isn't good for nesting or brood rearing.
83% of all statistics are made up.
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 31,612 Likes: 153
Grumpy Old Man
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Grumpy Old Man
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 31,612 Likes: 153 |
If you have real documented researched facts of why this won’t work and what your research has proven to be better, let’s hear it otherwise you’ll have to adapt . The better question is, do you.....or “they”, have real documented facts of why it will work. Please provide them. I’m talking a real solid connection in higher poult production from “X” number of hens where hunting was delayed. Better yet, name a state who has already pushed back and shortened their season, and can prove turkey numbers are on the way up, not down. Why is it crazy that the hunting public, the hardcore guys who buy stuff and pay the bills of conservation and research, to ask for facts before making change? And lastly, if I hunted North AL like I once did regularly, it wouldn’t be as bad. But where I live and hunt currently, the absolute best hunting and gobbling activity is about M10-M20. And that’s a fact. Well schit! I'm glad Chuck finally joined the conversation. My "research" indicates that we don't have a turkey problem. He have a hunter problem, specifically too many of them.
I hate making a good first impression. There’s no way I can keep that shit up.
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10,735
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10,735 |
Hey DP1975, here is a quote from assistant director Fred Harders in the Tuscaloosa News about why they moved opening day and here is a link to the article. Turkey season change Nothing in there about a biological reason so you can take that crap and sell it somewhere else. The CAB also decided to bring Turkey season in on a Saturday every year. Prior to now, Turkey season usually begins March 15 regardless of the day if fell on. From now on, Turkey will always begin on the third Saturday in March, Harders said. "It's a day that just about everybody has off," Harders said. "If it comes in on a Thursday and you're in a hunting club where you're the only person who can get off on Thursday, it gives you a big advantage over everybody else."
The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life.
Job 33:4
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,417 Likes: 16
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,417 Likes: 16 |
Hey DP1975, here is a quote from assistant director Fred Harders in the Tuscaloosa News about why they moved opening day and here is a link to the article. Turkey season change Nothing in there about a biological reason so you can take that crap and sell it somewhere else. The CAB also decided to bring Turkey season in on a Saturday every year. Prior to now, Turkey season usually begins March 15 regardless of the day if fell on. From now on, Turkey will always begin on the third Saturday in March, Harders said. "It's a day that just about everybody has off," Harders said. "If it comes in on a Thursday and you're in a hunting club where you're the only person who can get off on Thursday, it gives you a big advantage over everybody else." They did give a biological reason at the CAB meeting, I didn’t agree with it, but one was given.
83% of all statistics are made up.
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 11,919
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 11,919 |
My prediction on how this thing is going to go: 1. The season dates change and the limit will change soon after. 2. Our population will explode, simply because we have been blessed enough to have some good weather for poult recruitment. 3. The state will take credit for the explosion. 4. The population will fall again following some bad years of poult recruitment post-changes. 5. Instead of then (logically) admitting the season/bag limit has little to nothing to do with population numbers. 6. The season will get even shorter and the limit even smaller because we must not have quite taken it far enough. 7. Idiots like this new goober shooting off at the mouth will willingly give up more of their God-given rights for ZERO good reason whatsoever. Feelgoodism based purely in emotion. 8. America eventually crumbles because similar idiots across all venues have little to zero understanding of the gift of freedom their founding and Heavenly fathers have given them. I kill an Alabama limit most years so according to the idiot from item 7's implied standards, I am qualified to call him names accordingly. 
Last edited by JUGHEAD; 07/29/19 12:45 PM.
"The only reason I shoot a 3.5" shell for turkeys is because they don't make a 4" one." - t123winters
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,138 Likes: 5
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,138 Likes: 5 |
Chad you are absolutely correct on all 8 of you assessments. I agree with everyone of them.
This wingnut is to dense to realize our season now is very similar to what Georgia has and has had for some time now. Even with a reduced limit their population has experienced a decline just like many other SE states. I do acknowledge that the state of Alabama moved our season ahead from the 20th to the 15th. However that still does not change the fact we are now closely following in the foot steps of a neighboring state with the same issue of a declining population. I’m still waiting to see the research that shows Alabama will have different results?
I’m like Outback. We have to many hunters and I’d venture to say those capable of killing more than 5 will do so. Our GW are understaffed and leave a lot to be desired in the area of game violation enforcement.
And DP1975 before you go spouting off at the mouth about how I’m whining about having season open at a later date because I can’t kill my limit any other time you sir will be badly mistaken with that assessment. I can assure you there are many highly successful turkey hunters on this forum that get it done year in and year out in this state and many others as well. Many of us just want to see the science behind the change instead of a feel good PR stunt that has taken place.
"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life.
Comes to us at midnight very clean.
It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands.
It hopes we've learned something from yesterday."
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 38,489
Boo Boo Head
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Boo Boo Head
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 38,489 |
It all started when they let that hot girl on the CAB board for no apparent reason then she hauled butt out of state. Thatwas weird
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 31,612 Likes: 153
Grumpy Old Man
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Grumpy Old Man
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 31,612 Likes: 153 |
It all started when they let that hot girl on the CAB board for no apparent reason then she hauled butt out of state. Thatwas weird All of the board members are appointed for a reason. Political favors.
I hate making a good first impression. There’s no way I can keep that shit up.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 37,397 Likes: 67
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 37,397 Likes: 67 |
Hey DP1975, here is a quote from assistant director Fred Harders in the Tuscaloosa News about why they moved opening day and here is a link to the article. Turkey season change Nothing in there about a biological reason so you can take that crap and sell it somewhere else. The CAB also decided to bring Turkey season in on a Saturday every year. Prior to now, Turkey season usually begins March 15 regardless of the day if fell on. From now on, Turkey will always begin on the third Saturday in March, Harders said. "It's a day that just about everybody has off," Harders said. "If it comes in on a Thursday and you're in a hunting club where you're the only person who can get off on Thursday, it gives you a big advantage over everybody else." Errbody gets a medal........ 
I've spent most of the money I've made in my lifetime on hunting and fishing. The rest I just wasted.....
proud Cracker-Americaan
muslims are like coyotes, only good one is a dead one
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 37,397 Likes: 67
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 37,397 Likes: 67 |
it came in on March 20 for a hundred years.....
I've spent most of the money I've made in my lifetime on hunting and fishing. The rest I just wasted.....
proud Cracker-Americaan
muslims are like coyotes, only good one is a dead one
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 20,348 Likes: 28
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 20,348 Likes: 28 |
I dont care what day it comes in or goes out. If I know birds are gobbling I will go if I know they are not I wont. I dont care how many turkeys you or I kill, I simply hope the Turkey populations in the state stay as high as possible so maybe one day my kids will know how fun turkey hunting can be when you hear turkeys gobble. If that means the state adjusts the dates so be it, I dont see what it can hurt besides peoples feelings
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,138 Likes: 5
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,138 Likes: 5 |
I dont care what day it comes in or goes out. If I know birds are gobbling I will go if I know they are not I wont. I dont care how many turkeys you or I kill, I simply hope the Turkey populations in the state stay as high as possible so maybe one day my kids will know how fun turkey hunting can be when you hear turkeys gobble. If that means the state adjusts the dates so be it, I dont see what it can hurt besides peoples feelings Ben I truly do not know what the issue is with your place in Central Alabama. I feel for you and wish I could help answer that big unknown for you. If you are not seeing poults this year with the weather we had then I'm afraid you have a much bigger issue than anyone can answer. I can also assure by the state tweaking the dates it's not gonna make a hill of beans to fix your problem. With the habitat you have there is no logical reason I can come up with as to why you aren't loaded with turkeys. The reason I say the season change will be ineffective is Georgia is a perfect example. Moving the season opener out and extending the close has had zero beneficial results for their state and it is a time tested fact. If you spend a little time on GON forum you will see folks like yourself complaining about the lack of turkey on their property and state wide in general. Truth be known none of these states with declining turkey populations know how to fix it. Most if not all of the change has been "feel good/PR" crap that has zero science behind it. If they had solid science to back these changes it would be plastered far and wide for everyone to see. Sure they have a little information and some fancy computer generated model that predicts the future but all that computer program is not science based. Its a bunch of hog wash in my personal opinion. It simply boils down to the good lord and land owners doing the best they can do to manage habitat, predators and provide food. The rest of it falls in the good lords hands to give us the weather for a successful hatch.
"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life.
Comes to us at midnight very clean.
It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands.
It hopes we've learned something from yesterday."
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 22,608 Likes: 22
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 22,608 Likes: 22 |
I dont care what day it comes in or goes out. If I know birds are gobbling I will go if I know they are not I wont. Illegally? I think that's people's concern. If they're gobbling March 15 next year, you can't go....legally.
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 20,348 Likes: 28
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 20,348 Likes: 28 |
I dont care what day it comes in or goes out. If I know birds are gobbling I will go if I know they are not I wont. Illegally? I think that's people's concern. If they're gobbling March 15 next year, you can't go....legally. No I dont hunt illegally, I was saying if it comes in on the 20th and birds are not gobbling I am not going, if it ends may 20th and turkeys are not gobbling I am not going. If it ends on May 20 and they are gobbling well I am gonna try to be there
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 20,348 Likes: 28
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 20,348 Likes: 28 |
I dont care what day it comes in or goes out. If I know birds are gobbling I will go if I know they are not I wont. I dont care how many turkeys you or I kill, I simply hope the Turkey populations in the state stay as high as possible so maybe one day my kids will know how fun turkey hunting can be when you hear turkeys gobble. If that means the state adjusts the dates so be it, I dont see what it can hurt besides peoples feelings Ben I truly do not know what the issue is with your place in Central Alabama. I feel for you and wish I could help answer that big unknown for you. If you are not seeing poults this year with the weather we had then I'm afraid you have a much bigger issue than anyone can answer. I can also assure by the state tweaking the dates it's not gonna make a hill of beans to fix your problem. With the habitat you have there is no logical reason I can come up with as to why you aren't loaded with turkeys. The reason I say the season change will be ineffective is Georgia is a perfect example. Moving the season opener out and extending the close has had zero beneficial results for their state and it is a time tested fact. If you spend a little time on GON forum you will see folks like yourself complaining about the lack of turkey on their property and state wide in general. Truth be known none of these states with declining turkey populations know how to fix it. Most if not all of the change has been "feel good/PR" crap that has zero science behind it. If they had solid science to back these changes it would be plastered far and wide for everyone to see. Sure they have a little information and some fancy computer generated model that predicts the future but all that computer program is not science based. Its a bunch of hog wash in my personal opinion. It simply boils down to the good lord and land owners doing the best they can do to manage habitat, predators and provide food. The rest of it falls in the good lords hands to give us the weather for a successful hatch. I understand that as well, but I still dont see how trying is hurting anything, even if it is a waste of time in the end. Just like the opening it on Saturday, why is that bad?
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 13,669 Likes: 28
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 13,669 Likes: 28 |
I understand that as well, but I still dont see how trying is hurting anything, even if it is a waste of time in the end. Just like the opening it on Saturday, why is that bad?
The problem with "trying" is that they are taking away days that hunters can legally hunt for no justifiable biological reason. The continual erosion of hunters' rights will eventually lead to hunters dedicating less of their own time and money to help manage their property's habitat, predators, ect. Right now for example, I've got about 1,200 acres that I work on year round to provide everything possible to make quality turkey habitat, trap, and so on. I feel confident that as long as I do my part, I can kill my 5 birds off that 1,200 acres. Now, let's say that they hypothetically decide to lower the limit to 3. I've got one 600 acre tract that I am very confident I can kill my 3 birds off of. So more than likely, I would drop my other leases on the other 600 acres and probably take another out of state hunt or two each year. Those 600 acres may or may not be leased by someone else who plans to manage the property for turkeys, but it will no longer be necessary for me to spend my time and money doing it.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,138 Likes: 5
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,138 Likes: 5 |
Cole has a very valid point here and PCP has also made the same point. Start taking away time and rights away from the hunters then things have the potential to do more harm than good.
I am going to stick with my original thoughts on your place. If I recall you have a farmer in the area that uses chicken litter and you have a neighbor or neighbors that turkey hunt regularly. If I was a betting man I would be willing to put money on those two are a large part of your issue. The reason I feel confident is saying that is because I have a very similar situation on one of my properties. Don't think for one second those can't be an issue because I can assure you they very well can be. If you take those two factors away completely when two years I'd bet you would see a big change.
"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life.
Comes to us at midnight very clean.
It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands.
It hopes we've learned something from yesterday."
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 22,608 Likes: 22
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 22,608 Likes: 22 |
The problem with "trying" is that they are taking away days that hunters can legally hunt for no justifiable biological reason.
I agree with your feelings, but the facts say differently. If the biologists think that fewer turkeys need to be killed, then shortening the season is the best way to accomplish that. Decreasing the limit, as evidenced by South Carolina, had little effect on overall kill numbers. The stone cold turkey killers just ask a friend to come, and the friend pulls the trigger. I hate to see a shorter season, but this is their reason for doing it. The later season start also has other biological and reproductive reasons. I personally don't see a reason to shorten the season or lower the bag limit, numbers are decent where I hunt. I hate to see it happen.
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 20,348 Likes: 28
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 20,348 Likes: 28 |
Cole has a very valid point here and PCP has also made the same point. Start taking away time and rights away from the hunters then things have the potential to do more harm than good.
I am going to stick with my original thoughts on your place. If I recall you have a farmer in the area that uses chicken litter and you have a neighbor or neighbors that turkey hunt regularly. If I was a betting man I would be willing to put money on those two are a large part of your issue. The reason I feel confident is saying that is because I have a very similar situation on one of my properties. Don't think for one second those can't be an issue because I can assure you they very well can be. If you take those two factors away completely when two years I'd bet you would see a big change. No sir no chicken litter that I know of if it is used I have never seen it put out (smithgrow on here farms it) no serious turkey hunter anywhere close by. The only 2 neighbors that do hunt did not kill a turkey this year and 1 of them killed 1 the season before. Making 1 killed this year and 4 or 5 killed the year before on about 3000 acres.
Last edited by Ben2; 07/30/19 01:33 PM.
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 20,348 Likes: 28
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 20,348 Likes: 28 |
Cole has a very valid point here and PCP has also made the same point. Start taking away time and rights away from the hunters then things have the potential to do more harm than good.
I am going to stick with my original thoughts on your place. If I recall you have a farmer in the area that uses chicken litter and you have a neighbor or neighbors that turkey hunt regularly. If I was a betting man I would be willing to put money on those two are a large part of your issue. The reason I feel confident is saying that is because I have a very similar situation on one of my properties. Don't think for one second those can't be an issue because I can assure you they very well can be. If you take those two factors away completely when two years I'd bet you would see a big change. No sir no chicken litter that I know of (smithgrow on here farms it) no serious turkey hunter anywhere close by. The only 2 neighbors that do hunt did not kill a turkey this year and 1 of them killed 1 the season before. Making 1 killed this year and 4 or 5 killed the year before on about 3000 acres. But again this is decline in turkeys that I have noticed on properties from North Alabama to Coosa County over the last 10 years, not just on our farm. Yet I know lots of people have seen steady or growing populations.
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