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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 37,396 Likes: 66
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 37,396 Likes: 66 |
Pawpaw, it is on the website now you old cranky cuss đ
wasn't there Monday.
I've spent most of the money I've made in my lifetime on hunting and fishing. The rest I just wasted.....
proud Cracker-Americaan
muslims are like coyotes, only good one is a dead one
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 31,603 Likes: 150
Grumpy Old Man
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Grumpy Old Man
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 31,603 Likes: 150 |
sj22, THAT book is NOT an official book of the department. It does NOT contain actual wording of the laws and regs and is about worthless as chitt. Alrighty then so when does turkey season officially begin and end in Alabama according to the official book of the department? you apparently ain't been listening....the book ain't out yet, prolly won't be for another month. Get it off the official website, not that damn interpretive rag. So are the dates in this unofficial book right or not? They are numbers on a calendar. That's all.
I hate making a good first impression. Thereâs no way I can keep that shit up.
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 3,600 Likes: 5
10 point
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10 point
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 3,600 Likes: 5 |
This ^^^ Those are only suggested started and stopping dates
You haven't been blocked until you've been flock blocked!!!
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 10
spike
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spike
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 10 |
I have read a lot of the research about the season timing. Basically using averages for hen nest start dates they have determined most of the Gobblers were being killed before the breeding season had finished and hens started their nest. And yes everyone knows one Gobbler can breed multiple hens, but hunting pressure during the breeding season and fewer Gobblers to do the breeding can leave hens unbred. As for as Lovett Williams...I have read everyone of his books and donât recall him saying a later season would be detrimental. The âtheoryâ that hens will abandon nests if disturbed is redicoulous Iâve flushed hens from their nest and the next day they were right back on them. There is a difference in repeatedly spooking a hen off the first 3 or 4 eggs and flushing one after incubation begins. Once they have a full clutch and have started the incubation they will return they have too much invested. If they get flushed several times off the first few eggs they will usually abandon that partial nest because it is obviously in a poor location, they will try again in another spot. How many of those complaining about the season change regularly kill a 5 Gobbler limit? And of those how many kill all 5 in the first two weeks? If you are one of the majority that never kills 5 and usually 2or 3 in a good year, you probably have been hunting them in the later part of the season anyway and a week or two either way will not make a difference. I will not go into details but anyone that hunts everyday of the season, which I have done for years, will already know about the peaks of gobbling activity, the Gobbling Lull and the difference in Gobbler behavior before during and after the breeding season. If you are a part timer that has been hunting turkeys for 30 years but only have maybe 5 seasons total worth of days in the woods I can see why you would think a week or two will ruin your season.
Would everyone prefer they do nothing and let the turkeys slide off into oblivion. If you have real documented researched facts of why this wonât work and what your research has proven to be better, letâs hear it otherwise youâll have to adapt your hunting tactics. Missing the early season will affect the strutter decoy crowd the most because the pecking order will be established before the season opens and the fighting will be mostly over. The chufa patch âhuntersâ will probably not notice a difference as turkeys will still be eating, but then again chufa patch sitters donât notice much anyway sitting in a tent all day staring at a bait field. As for those that made the remarks about season dates only being a suggestion you have proven you donât care about whatâs best for the Wild Turkey you just want to say you killed one.....sad.
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 13,667 Likes: 28
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 13,667 Likes: 28 |
I have read a lot of the research about the season timing. Basically using averages for hen nest start dates they have determined most of the Gobblers were being killed before the breeding season had finished and hens started their nest. And yes everyone knows one Gobbler can breed multiple hens, but hunting pressure during the breeding season and fewer Gobblers to do the breeding can leave hens unbred. As for as Lovett Williams...I have read everyone of his books and donât recall him saying a later season would be detrimental. The âtheoryâ that hens will abandon nests if disturbed is redicoulous Iâve flushed hens from their nest and the next day they were right back on them. There is a difference in repeatedly spooking a hen off the first 3 or 4 eggs and flushing one after incubation begins. Once they have a full clutch and have started the incubation they will return they have too much invested. If they get flushed several times off the first few eggs they will usually abandon that partial nest because it is obviously in a poor location, they will try again in another spot. How many of those complaining about the season change regularly kill a 5 Gobbler limit? And of those how many kill all 5 in the first two weeks? If you are one of the majority that never kills 5 and usually 2or 3 in a good year, you probably have been hunting them in the later part of the season anyway and a week or two either way will not make a difference. I will not go into details but anyone that hunts everyday of the season, which I have done for years, will already know about the peaks of gobbling activity, the Gobbling Lull and the difference in Gobbler behavior before during and after the breeding season. If you are a part timer that has been hunting turkeys for 30 years but only have maybe 5 seasons total worth of days in the woods I can see why you would think a week or two will ruin your season.
Would everyone prefer they do nothing and let the turkeys slide off into oblivion. If you have real documented researched facts of why this wonât work and what your research has proven to be better, letâs hear it otherwise youâll have to adapt your hunting tactics. Missing the early season will affect the strutter decoy crowd the most because the pecking order will be established before the season opens and the fighting will be mostly over. The chufa patch âhuntersâ will probably not notice a difference as turkeys will still be eating, but then again chufa patch sitters donât notice much anyway sitting in a tent all day staring at a bait field. As for those that made the remarks about season dates only being a suggestion you have proven you donât care about whatâs best for the Wild Turkey you just want to say you killed one.....sad. Welcome to the forum Chuckie
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 20,347 Likes: 28
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 20,347 Likes: 28 |
I have read a lot of the research about the season timing. Basically using averages for hen nest start dates they have determined most of the Gobblers were being killed before the breeding season had finished and hens started their nest. And yes everyone knows one Gobbler can breed multiple hens, but hunting pressure during the breeding season and fewer Gobblers to do the breeding can leave hens unbred. As for as Lovett Williams...I have read everyone of his books and donât recall him saying a later season would be detrimental. The âtheoryâ that hens will abandon nests if disturbed is redicoulous Iâve flushed hens from their nest and the next day they were right back on them. There is a difference in repeatedly spooking a hen off the first 3 or 4 eggs and flushing one after incubation begins. Once they have a full clutch and have started the incubation they will return they have too much invested. If they get flushed several times off the first few eggs they will usually abandon that partial nest because it is obviously in a poor location, they will try again in another spot. How many of those complaining about the season change regularly kill a 5 Gobbler limit? And of those how many kill all 5 in the first two weeks? If you are one of the majority that never kills 5 and usually 2or 3 in a good year, you probably have been hunting them in the later part of the season anyway and a week or two either way will not make a difference. I will not go into details but anyone that hunts everyday of the season, which I have done for years, will already know about the peaks of gobbling activity, the Gobbling Lull and the difference in Gobbler behavior before during and after the breeding season. If you are a part timer that has been hunting turkeys for 30 years but only have maybe 5 seasons total worth of days in the woods I can see why you would think a week or two will ruin your season.
Would everyone prefer they do nothing and let the turkeys slide off into oblivion. If you have real documented researched facts of why this wonât work and what your research has proven to be better, letâs hear it otherwise youâll have to adapt your hunting tactics. Missing the early season will affect the strutter decoy crowd the most because the pecking order will be established before the season opens and the fighting will be mostly over. The chufa patch âhuntersâ will probably not notice a difference as turkeys will still be eating, but then again chufa patch sitters donât notice much anyway sitting in a tent all day staring at a bait field. As for those that made the remarks about season dates only being a suggestion you have proven you donât care about whatâs best for the Wild Turkey you just want to say you killed one.....sad. Welcome to the forum Chuckie Wondered how long this reply would take
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 9,111 Likes: 35
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 9,111 Likes: 35 |
Ive heard the reasoning behind the change..not sure it will make a difference in places with good numbers and stellar habitat, but could be good for places with alot of hunting pressure and not so great poult mortality. We will see what happens i guess
"I dont quit.. And ill fight alone if i have to"
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,085 Likes: 7
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,085 Likes: 7 |
If you have real documented researched facts of why this wonât work and what your research has proven to be better, letâs hear it otherwise youâll have to adapt . The better question is, do you.....or âtheyâ, have real documented facts of why it will work. Please provide them. Iâm talking a real solid connection in higher poult production from âXâ number of hens where hunting was delayed. Better yet, name a state who has already pushed back and shortened their season, and can prove turkey numbers are on the way up, not down. Why is it crazy that the hunting public, the hardcore guys who buy stuff and pay the bills of conservation and research, to ask for facts before making change? And lastly, if I hunted North AL like I once did regularly, it wouldnât be as bad. But where I live and hunt currently, the absolute best hunting and gobbling activity is about M10-M20. And thatâs a fact.
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 10
spike
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spike
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 10 |
If you have real documented researched facts of why this wonât work and what your research has proven to be better, letâs hear it otherwise youâll have to adapt . The better question is, do you.....or âtheyâ, have real documented facts of why it will work. Please provide them. Iâm talking a real solid connection in higher poult production from âXâ number of hens where hunting was delayed. Better yet, name a state who has already pushed back and shortened their season, and can prove turkey numbers are on the way up, not down. Why is it crazy that the hunting public, the hardcore guys who buy stuff and pay the bills of conservation and research, to ask for facts before making change? And lastly, if I hunted North AL like I once did regularly, it wouldnât be as bad. But where I live and hunt currently, the absolute best hunting and gobbling activity is about M10-M20. And thatâs a fact. The research on why the states are trying this are easy to find. No state has pushed the season forward for long enough to have data on the population effect. There is plenty of data showing the kill figures were highest in the early part of the season before nest initiation. La is one state I hunt that has moved the season. Even with their reporting system problems it was clear the move dropped the Gobbler harvest with the later opening. Even though everyone doesnât call in a kill it is reasonable to assume the same percentage that followed the law before the season move would continue to call in kills, that number has dropped. That is proof that more Gobblers survived until the main breeding was complete that is a fact. More Gobblers per hen left to breed would mean more hens successfully bred. Your trying to compare your guess at what to do with a mathematical fact. It is a fact moving the season DID NOT hurt the population. In what way could more Gobblers surviving the season be a bad thing. You cannot move the opening date for one season and expect a miracle. It took a long time to get to this decline it will take a few seasons to see any effect good bad or indifferent. I have not heard a comment from anyone that regularly kills a limit in either Alabama or La or any other state that plans to move the season. Itâs clear the ones most upset with season changes cannot kill a limit no matter what the calendar says and have gotten themselves into a hunting strategy that requires very specific conditions for them to have any chance of success. Most are chained to the first Gobbling peak that happens before breeding starts they find one maybe two satellite Gobblers that operate on the outskirts of the flock they kill them and are completely hopeless when the Gobblers get there harems together. Most lose all motivation when the Gobbling lull starts most donât even know that it exists or what happens afterwards. You have to adapt your hunting to the condition. One of the guarantees of the season move is ALOT of the part timer, strutter/fanning clan will give up. Regardless if the population increases or not decreasing the hoards of wannabes will make a difference in the overall hunting experience, that is a cold hard fact. If you hunt private land and sit over bait( I mean food plots) you wonât notice a difference and you could probably get away with hunting the old season dates and get away with it. But for all the public land heroâs youâll either adapt,quit or spend some money on fines and or lawyers when your caught poaching.
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 13,667 Likes: 28
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 13,667 Likes: 28 |
Anybody who doesnt have sense enough to break up that jumbled mess into paragraphs hasn't got sense enough to talk turkey biology
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 38,489
Boo Boo Head
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Boo Boo Head
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 38,489 |
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Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 7,917
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 7,917 |
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,085 Likes: 7
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,085 Likes: 7 |
S If you have real documented researched facts of why this wonât work and what your research has proven to be better, letâs hear it otherwise youâll have to adapt . The better question is, do you.....or âtheyâ, have real documented facts of why it will work. Please provide them. Iâm talking a real solid connection in higher poult production from âXâ number of hens where hunting was delayed. Better yet, name a state who has already pushed back and shortened their season, and can prove turkey numbers are on the way up, not down. Why is it crazy that the hunting public, the hardcore guys who buy stuff and pay the bills of conservation and research, to ask for facts before making change? And lastly, if I hunted North AL like I once did regularly, it wouldnât be as bad. But where I live and hunt currently, the absolute best hunting and gobbling activity is about M10-M20. And thatâs a fact. The research on why the states are trying this are easy to find. No state has pushed the season forward for long enough to have data on the population effect. There is plenty of data showing the kill figures were highest in the early part of the season before nest initiation. La is one state I hunt that has moved the season. Even with their reporting system problems it was clear the move dropped the Gobbler harvest with the later opening. Even though everyone doesnât call in a kill it is reasonable to assume the same percentage that followed the law before the season move would continue to call in kills, that number has dropped. That is proof that more Gobblers survived until the main breeding was complete that is a fact. More Gobblers per hen left to breed would mean more hens successfully bred. Your trying to compare your guess at what to do with a mathematical fact. It is a fact moving the season DID NOT hurt the population. In what way could more Gobblers surviving the season be a bad thing. You cannot move the opening date for one season and expect a miracle. It took a long time to get to this decline it will take a few seasons to see any effect good bad or indifferent. I have not heard a comment from anyone that regularly kills a limit in either Alabama or La or any other state that plans to move the season. Itâs clear the ones most upset with season changes cannot kill a limit no matter what the calendar says and have gotten themselves into a hunting strategy that requires very specific conditions for them to have any chance of success. Most are chained to the first Gobbling peak that happens before breeding starts they find one maybe two satellite Gobblers that operate on the outskirts of the flock they kill them and are completely hopeless when the Gobblers get there harems together. Most lose all motivation when the Gobbling lull starts most donât even know that it exists or what happens afterwards. You have to adapt your hunting to the condition. One of the guarantees of the season move is ALOT of the part timer, strutter/fanning clan will give up. Regardless if the population increases or not decreasing the hoards of wannabes will make a difference in the overall hunting experience, that is a cold hard fact. If you hunt private land and sit over bait( I mean food plots) you wonât notice a difference and you could probably get away with hunting the old season dates and get away with it. But for all the public land heroâs youâll either adapt,quit or spend some money on fines and or lawyers when your caught poaching. You should probably hang out here during a couple turkey seasons before running that trap anymore.
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 10
spike
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spike
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 10 |
So putting posts in paragraphs are your only responses lol. Not a single reason or logical explanation of your reasons why you think the season move wonât work,just whining. Iâve been hunting turkeys for over 30 years, long before there was a turkey forum or any forum. The amount of time you spend sitting in front of a computer on a hunting forum is useless in the woods and anyone that thinks there post count means anything to a turkey is a joke.
If your having trouble understanding what was posted the composition of the post would not make a difference, maybe get someone to read them to you and explain what the words mean. Itâs clear most of the responses are from those who havenât are cannot read the research and reasons behind the season change. Asking for data on the season being moved before the season has been moved says everything that needs saying on some of your comprehension levels. There is a reason the state of Alabama didnât call you directly for your opinions on the season dates.
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,085 Likes: 7
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,085 Likes: 7 |
The research on why the states are trying this are easy to find. No state has pushed the season forward for long enough to have data on the population effect. There is plenty of data showing the kill figures were highest in the early part of the season before nest initiation.
How long do you think it takes to drastically increase a turkey population? A bird can go from egg to a hard gobbling and strutting bird in less than two full years. Two or three years should be more than enough time to see huge increases. But you should know that, right? Iâm gonna assume you understand that. But whereâs the results?
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,085 Likes: 7
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,085 Likes: 7 |
That is proof that more Gobblers survived until the main breeding was complete that is a fact. More Gobblers per hen left to breed would mean more hens successfully bred. Your trying to compare your guess at what to do with a mathematical fact. It is a fact moving the season DID NOT hurt the population. In what way could more Gobblers surviving the season be a bad thing.
PROOF!! There is no proof. Wake up! Plenty of us have read some recent research. Nothing I have read can provide a clear link to a gobbler survival theory and actual number of poults walking around. It sounds great. It even sounds halfway logical if your grasping for something. But research shouldnât make assumptions, plain and simple.
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 10
spike
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spike
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 10 |
That is proof that more Gobblers survived until the main breeding was complete that is a fact. More Gobblers per hen left to breed would mean more hens successfully bred. Your trying to compare your guess at what to do with a mathematical fact. It is a fact moving the season DID NOT hurt the population. In what way could more Gobblers surviving the season be a bad thing.
PROOF!! There is no proof. Wake up! Plenty of us have read some recent research. Nothing I have read can provide a clear link to a gobbler survival theory and actual number of poults walking around. It sounds great. It even sounds halfway logical if your grasping for something. But research shouldnât make assumptions, plain and simple. Which state has moved the season forward for the 3 years you said it would take? La moved there last season they did have a dramatic decline in Gobbler harvest VS the mid March opening which left more Gobblers to survive the breeding season that is fact. Your obviously the thinker in this group and your because I think itâs so attitude has convinced me. Surely this whole thing is a huge conspiracy to keep you and everyone else from killing a turkey in early March. Now the question is why. What is the state of Alabama and several other southeastern states motive for keeping you from hunting turkeys in March? What is their end game who stands to gain from this horrible crime committed on you and the other brethren? If you cannot answer these two questions I will assume you are full of BS and have no answer. And at that point I will go back to my original belief that the season move has a chance to help the population and that we need to give it time. You will know which statement was a question because it ends with a â? â Surley a genus such as yourself could answer such easy questions I mean otherwise youâd just be some wannabe whining because you didnât get your way and without a single reason to support your crying but the fact that your upset.
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,085 Likes: 7
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,085 Likes: 7 |
Which state has moved the season forward for the 3 years you said it would take?
Kentucky, for a long time along with a two bird limit. No positive change. Population actually dropping in most areas. Georgia - same latitude areas for years had season average a week later start than AL. Three bird limit. No positive change that I know of. Averaged a week later starting date and two bird less limit - should be overrun with birds compared to AL if the research assumption is correct. Right?
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,085 Likes: 7
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,085 Likes: 7 |
Surely this whole thing is a huge conspiracy to keep you and everyone else from killing a turkey in early March. Now the question is why. What is the state of Alabama and several other southeastern states motive for keeping you from hunting turkeys in March? What is their end game who stands to gain from this horrible crime committed on you and the other brethren?
Surley a genus
Its about being fair. We get it. States have good intentions. Follow the money. They need to show the sheeple they intend to help grow the population and grow the sport. Thereâs was a time I would have been a good little minion and got on board without asking questions. Not anymore. Prove it first. Show me itâs not just about being fair so everyone can play. Also - Iâm representing the southern half or third of the state. Itâs different here. Baldwin Co having the same season dates as Jackson Co is insane. Coffee Co starting the same day as Lauderdale Co is stupid. Thatâs part of the equation here.
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 22,608 Likes: 22
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 22,608 Likes: 22 |
Why don't we just move the turkey season to June? That way all the gobblers will get a crack at all the hens and all the gobbling will be over, and only the "true" turkey hunters can get after them, and hunt them without benefit of gobbles, decoys, or fans....
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