Aldeer.com Forums Alabama Deer Talk Aldeer General Forum COTH (Church of the Highlands)

Well dag um didn't even know it thanks

The SOF from the church’s website gets into some sticky language concerning God’s will for believers to be “whole” or “successful” in all areas of life, seeming to say that it is God’s will that you not be sick, that you be wealthy, and that you live a life in pursuit of both because that is God’s will for your life. I suppose the apostle Paul was not following God’s will for his life, as he seemingly was always landing in prison, being tortured and beaten, forsaking all and knowing nothing but Christ crucified. I know that I will get lampooned for saying this by some, but please brothers be careful of this type of teaching.

What's SOF

Statement of Faith

Seeming to say or says it directly?

Let’s not just take an excerpt.

“It is the Father's will for believers to become whole, healthy and successful in all areas of life. But because of the fall, many may not receive the full benefits of God’s will while on Earth. That fact, though, should never prevent all believers from seeking the full benefits of Christ’s provision in order to better serve others.”

You think God’s will was for Paul to suffer? God’s will was to spread the gospel, and the suffering by Paul was a side effect of the original fall.

SBS I would then counter by saying that in many cases Paul knew he would be imprisoned and/or beaten for publicly sharing the Gospel. Would he then be out of God's will by pursuing something he knew would leave him phsyically less than whole, if it is God's will for us to pursue health?

My daughter and SIL are members at COTH Montgomery campus. My wife and I attend when in town and we like it. Welcoming atmosphere. Christ-centered preaching and teaching. Sound doctrine. Small groups with a connect, grow and go model. COTH suits my taste.

I would gladly join COTH if I lived there because it is producing fruit, despite the long list of flaws. Yes. Flaws. I don't know what flaws at this point, but they are there. Maybe factions. Or gossip. Or infighting. Or envy. Or pride. Or strife. Or worship of music rather than worship of God. Whatever the imperfections, they become more evident after getting actively involved in areas of service and leadership. COTH does not have a patent on church done right. Nor does FBC Washington, GA where I serve as deacon and small group leader. FBC is 190 years old and runs 250-300 in attendance. FBC is Southern Baptist and has a contemporary traditional flavor. COTH and FBC are totally different flavors. And yet both are producing fruit. How amazing that Almighty God accomplishes His perfect work through such an eclectic bunch of believers. Paul said in 1Cor 9:22, "I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some."

No, because there are times when it’s inevitable for us to not be whole (you know, it goes back to the whole fall thing).

I have a question for you. Does God call us to be sick?

SBS I'm totally with you here on the fact that sickness along with any other troubles we experience in life are not caused by God. The fall in the garden introduced sin, death, and evil into our lives as human beings. I do believe that God allows us to be sick and allows us to walk through things in this life that are not caused by him but allowed by him. He has the power to heal sickness and remove us from bad things, but sometimes He does not because it produces a level of sanctification in our lives that we could not get any other way.

Absolutely agree with everything you said. God’s will is for us to be whole and healthy, but because of the fall, we cannot do that completely. That’s why I don’t believe that the statement of faith is inaccurate. I can also assure you that Pastor Chris does not preach the “prosperity gospel” like Osteen and others. He preaches solid sermons from the word of the Lord, and does not interpret the passages to meet any specific agenda. I would urge you to check out a few of his sermons online and see what I’m talking about.

SBS awesome, so glad to hear that. If they are simply just teaching that God calls us to live lives of excellence in all areas, submitted to Him and glorifying to Him, then I applaud and commend them for that. We do need that more in our churches today. The problem arises when some of these churches preach/teach that if you aren't healthy or wealthy then God is punishing you or it's because of your own sin, or if you just have enough faith you won't get sick or will be wealthy. The prosperity gospel a major eye-twitch inducing hot button issue in American Christianity that I have had personal experience with and anguish over in years past, so I genuinely said what I did out of concern, not to condemn or shame. I am sorry if I didn't have enough grace in my words the first go 'round.

The model they have for small groups is absolutely a great concept and more Biblical than what most traditional churches are doing these days. I will have to listen to a few sermons as well, always looking for good preaching to fill up road time or long days at the office.

Yes, yes I do. I think it was God's will for Paul to suffer. Suffering is a gracious thing in the sight of God. Jesus suffered and left us an example. If we follow His steps, they will lead us to "suffering."

Here are a couple scriptures that plainly show that suffering is according to God's will and plan for his children. Do you have any scriptures that show something to the contrary?

I Pet 3:17 - "For it is better to suffer for doing good, if that should be God's will, than for doing evil.", so yes, suffering can be according to God's will according the inspired Apostle Peter.

Also:

I Pet 2:19-21 For this is a gracious thing, when, mindful of God, one endures sorrows while suffering unjustly. 20 For what credit is it if, when you sin and are beaten for it, you endure? But if when you do good and suffer for it you endure, this is a gracious thing in the sight of God. 21 For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps.

mman agree. I think it's one of the marks of a believer to have suffering in your life. Christ tells us we will have trouble in this world. While I don't believe that God takes pleasure in seeing us suffer, he does allow it for the production of fruit and sanctification in our lives. I've experienced it first hand. I would not be where I am in my relationship with Jesus were it not for some of the valleys I've walked through.

Amen. And the grace received after accepting Him is truly a miracle. I really like these threads. The funny things and the hunting and current events are great, I have really grown to enjoy time spent over the last year or so, but it is comforting to know there is also an interest in Christ as Savior on here as well. And as they say, talking about small groups, where two or more are gathered in His name... We have prayer triplets at my church, and each person chooses three people in need of guidance that all three pray for them. It's been powerful.

Tried to call them to ask a few questions. Lady put me through to an answering machine for a “ministry team”. Doesn’t sound like an easy route to a pastor for me.

Interested in learning more, but the similar small groups I have attended were about fellowship, hanging out, football, etc, not much substance. I’m not a hater but generally like a smaller, more personal church. We want to find the right place for us, just haven’t found it yet.

Boom

Do they have a youth group or youth pastor?

I don’t read those scriptures as suffering is God’s Will, but that suffering occurred by following God’s will. Like I said, God created the world as a perfect place, with no sin and suffering. If his will was for us to suffer, why was his perfect world created without it?

Yes! They have “motion night” once a month and then “city groups” meet more often. Of course small groups are still a big part of the youth ministry. My wife is going to be hosting an 8th grade girls small group in our home this fall.