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westflgator, last year we didn't see any sign of rut in Jan. But, I did see a buck chasing two does just north of DeFuniak Springs at about 4:00 a.m. on our way to "youth turkey hunt" in Geneva. That was the SECOND WEEK OF MARCH! This year we saw bucks running together until Mid-December. Since then, they've all been solo. I hope that means it's fixing to be on.

Last edited by longspur69; 12/30/11 11:20 PM.
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Originally Posted By: Squeaky
We have a early full moon this year on the 9th I believe it is. I have hunted the rut in many different states and I fully believe the full moon is one of the triggers for the rut. I have seen it to many times to believe anything any different. This is my personal experience and based solely off that. I also have trail cameras that stamp moon phase on the pics I always notice more buck movement the week prior to the full moon and during. With the full moon being on the 9th the week before and the two weeks after will be some prime hunting in my opinion if the weather will cooperate.

With the full moon on the 9th the woods should be showing signs of the rut as the bucks are getting ready to begin the seeking phase of the rut.


Best post I've seen. Agreed 100%

It is proven the amount of light depicts the does estrus cycle. I've seen a few does come in and killed a decent 9 chasing on the first full moon of the season... bow season that is. I heard grunting... Figured it was a doe calling her yearling back and thought to myself, sure wish it was the rut. All the sudden a doe ran by and the grunting kept on coming. I smoked him at 12 steps and he was rutted up bad. Only thing I can figure is the doe had some of that michigan still in her and popped on the Oct. Full moon, think it was 31st that year.

This year the rut has been screwy. Def. noticed good sign early, but one day I see bucks chasing does everywhere, then the next day nothing. I'll have a lone doe run by being chased wide open, then a doe and 2 yearlings like nothing is happening, then a group of 8 or 9 does hearded up like the rut is over. I've just come to the conclusion that some of these does are not coming in period till this next full moon. Usually the Dec. full moon is wide open in Walker/winston/fayette county, but I know there was a second rut last year cause I saw a giant after season chasing and had does that hadnt dropped in July this year... This week is the best wether so Good luck to all of you!!! I hope I kill him in the morning so I can get back to a sane state...


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Freak of Nature
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I have no faith in the moon theory. The deer on the place I had near Leeds would start BREEDING on Christmas day, give er take a day or two, every year, regardless of any moon phase. Rut was over by end of first week of January. I do think moon phase, and weather, affect the amount of rutting we see, not necessarily how much takes place.


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Originally Posted By: BhamFred
I have no faith in the moon theory. The deer on the place I had near Leeds would start BREEDING on Christmas day, give er take a day or two, every year, regardless of any moon phase. Rut was over by end of first week of January. I do think moon phase, and weather, affect the amount of rutting we see, not necessarily how much takes place.


Now, that makes WAYY too much sense, Troy!

LOL

I definitely can see a difference in deer movement according to the moon phase. But, I have not seen it actually have an effect on the breeding date. Simply the effect of deer movement DURING the breeding phase!

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10 point
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On and near my place in Wilcox county, just north of the NW Monroe county line, the bucks started making scrapes a month ago and then quit and haven't started back as of last week. However, I did see a buck chasing last Monday.
Usually they will make and work scrapes the last couple of weeks of January and tear the woods up during the first two or three weeks of February.


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Quote:
I too think this next full moon will be the trigger that sends the does into estrus.


So, you think that's it? The moon?


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Originally Posted By: BhamFred
I have no faith in the moon theory. The deer on the place I had near Leeds would start BREEDING on Christmas day, give er take a day or two, every year, regardless of any moon phase. Rut was over by end of first week of January. I do think moon phase, and weather, affect the amount of rutting we see, not necessarily how much takes place.


LMAO. There have been many studies done that prove you completely WRONG. I was looking for the study where some breeders made a doe come into heat over and over by the amount of light she was exposed to when I came across this article that may be easy to understand.


As deer have evolved, Mother Nature has played an important role in the timing of the deer breeding season. A properly timed rut results in a high fawn survival rate and ultimately in the survival of the species. Historically, Western Canada's climate conditions can be extreme and the deer have adapted to a narrow fawning window. When fawns are born too early, the weather conditions can still be very harsh. When fawns are born too late, they will not have enough time to build their strength for the first winter. Over the centuries, the deer have developed internal clocks to ensure fawns are born at the ideal time. This fawning window remains consistent from year to year and studies have shown that deer which are moved from one region to another will adapt to their new timing window.

The gestation period for deer is approximately 200 days and although not all fawns are born at exactly the same time, most are born within a two-week time period. So, what factors trigger the rut and the internal clocks of the deer?

I believe there are four main factors which influence the timing of the rut.

Length of the Day
Moon Phases
Weather
Herd Condition.
These factors do not work independently, but when combined they trigger and determine the breeding cycle.

Length of Day

The length of the day is probably the single most overriding factor in deer breeding. It determines the ideal 200-day time frame for deer breeding and fawning. It remains constant from year to year and it becomes the deer's internal clock and calendar. The first day of summer (June 21st) has the most amount of daylight and the first day of winter (Dec. 22nd) has the least. As the length of the day changes throughout the year, the seasons also change and this triggers the deers' annual life cycle events such as shedding velvet, dropping antlers and breeding. In Western Canada this ideal time frame falls between the second and third week of November. When the deer are bred during this ideal time window, the fawns are born during the maximum survival window.

Why does light play such an important part of deer breeding? Recent studies indicate the amount of light, or lack of it, directly affects the levels of melatonin in the does. The bucks are ready to breed as early as September, however they must wait for the does to come into estrus before breeding can commence. Melatonin is a sleep inducer and in deer it stimulates the estrus levels and dictates breeding time. The more light there is, the less melatonin is produced and this, in turn, causes the does to come into estrus.

Moonlight

Daylight plays the most important role in determining the rut, however the other source of light, moonlight, also plays a role. Moonlight is the most complex and often misunderstood factor in the timing of the rut. A complete book could be written on the theories of its affect on breeding. Moonlight cannot be the single factor in determining the rut because the moon phases fall on different dates each year. Basically, the amount of moonlight tends to sway the peak rutting time from one end of the ideal window to the other.

A full moon provides more light at night, which stimulates increased deer activity, however it decreases the amount of melatonin level in the does. This lack of melatonin causes the does to come into estrus. This is the reason many believe the rut occurs right after the full moon. In ideal circumstances this is correct, however, when the full moon is later in the month, such as in 1999, the rut will occur prior to the full moon but its pulled slightly later in the ideal window. The full moon has a greater affect on breeding when it is earlier in the month than when it is later. It also determines the intensity of the rut. If the full moon falls earlier in the month, the peak of the rut will occur earlier within the ideal time window and then taper off. If the full moon occurs later, the rut will begin slower and peak towards the end of the ideal window. If the full moon occurs directly within the window, the rut will be more obvious and intense. To a hunter, this is the ideal situation. If the rut is intense, the bucks become mesmerized with only one thing on their minds. They will tend to let down their guard and become more careless in their behavior and movement. More trophy deer are harvested because of errors made on the bucks' part during this intense time, not because of the skill of the hunter.

Weather

The third factor affecting the rut is extreme weather conditions. Although this is not one of the most important factors, it can play a part. Long periods of weather that is either too warm, too cold, or too windy, can affect the rutting activity. Most breeding occurs at night when the weather is cooler and the deer are most comfortable in their winter coats. This is why it is a very rare occurrence to actually witness the breeding process.

Herd Condition

Finally, herd condition plays a role in the timing of the breeding. As deer farmers this is the only factor we have control over. Making sure the does are in the best possible condition is of utmost importance to the development of their winter coats. Without these winter coats, their chance of surviving the winter ahead is greatly reduced. As well, does which have had late fawns the previous year, may not be in optimum condition to breed in the first cycle and may not come into estrus until the second cycle, in December. When this occurs, the fawns are born late again in the following year and once established, this late breeding cycle can be difficult to correct.

In conclusion, the factors affecting the rut must all come together like pieces in a puzzle. When one or more pieces do not fit properly, the puzzle is incomplete and breeding times are altered. The biggest piece in the puzzle is the amount of light, which determines the ideal timing window. The next biggest piece is the moonlight, which pinpoints the exact time within the window. Weather and herd condition are the remaining pieces which finish the puzzle. In order to complete the deer breeding puzzle, you must have all the pieces. Under ideal circumstances, all the puzzle pieces will fit exactly. When they don't fit exactly, your herd's reproductive abilities can be adversely affected.


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Photoperiodism is a deer's 'calendar'.

There is no doubt about that and I doubt anyone would argue that.

BUT, there is a big difference between that and the effect of lunar cycles on estrous cycles.

What would happen to you 'Light' theory if it stayed overcast during the nights of the 'bright' moon.

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LOL

Actually, you should just read what you just posted.

It says EXACTLY Troy said. smile

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Quote:
These factors do not work independently, but when combined they trigger and determine the breeding cycle.


Hormonal changes maybe could have been added in his list.

There's not one singular trigger. There are myriad factors.


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Originally Posted By: Hogwild
LOL

Actually, you should just read what you just posted.

It says EXACTLY Troy said. smile


Huh? He said he doesn't believe the moon has anything do with it. That his deer celebrate Christmas by getting split tail... lol


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