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Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,344
Bitch Peas, I'm a Kitty Whisperer
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Bitch Peas, I'm a Kitty Whisperer
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,344 |
I’d have a plumber come in and pressure test the system. This will show you very quick if you actually have a leak.
If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong.
Bluetick serpentines around green fields and rock spit a lease
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,068 Likes: 50
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,068 Likes: 50 |
You can turn off all your water and look at your water meter if you are on city water. Look at your pressure gauge if you're on a well
"And the days that I keep my gratitude
Higher than my expectations
Well, I have really good days" Ray Wylie Hubbard
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 10,249 Likes: 8
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 10,249 Likes: 8 |
Do you have the water supply from a well or the city?
If the city, check at the meter box and have all the water turned off in the house, and see if the meter is turning.
If it is, turn off the supply of water right at the house (should be, but not always, a turn off valve next to the house) and then check the meter again to see if it is moving.
If it is moving this time, the leak is from the box to the house. If it is not moving, the leak is somewhere in the house.
Once this leak is found and fixed, repeat over again from the beginning to make sure no other leaks are in house or another one from box to house.
God Bless,
David B.
Premium member #8925
Team Rack Addicts
2016 Aldeer Deer Champions
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,703
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,703 |
i'm gonna ask a stupid question . how do you know its air ? water not coming out in a steady stream or are you hearing a it making a noise ?
When you turn it on, it spits and sputters for a couple of seconds. When the air is gone, it works fine. Or it did until the other day. Now there is hardly any pressure. How old is the water heater? Not sure. I believe it's 8-10 years, but I have only owned the house for 3 years. It makes loud noises, so im sure it will go out soon, but all the bathrooms have good hot water pressure and don't have the air in the line, so I'm not sure the heater would cause my problem. The more I think about the condition you are describing, I believe you have more than one problem. When you first asked the question I didn't realize it was only happening on one leg of your hot water, and then with the volume gradually getting worse as well, it leads me to believe you have two problems. You have the one issue causing air to get in that hot water leg, and then the spitting and sputtering has probably loosened up some trash that is clogging up the kitchen faucet as well. As far as the air in the line goes, I am pretty sure even if you had a leak in the slab you wouldn't have this condition because you would always have a positive pressure condition that wouldn't allow air to be "sucked" into the line. The more I think about it, you may want to check your hot water heater to see if it is overheating causing a vapor lock like condition. If the thermostat has gone bad or is set too high the water in the tank can become steam, and you will get steam in the line vs water which will cause a violent spitting and sputtering coming out of the hot water side of the line. This sometimes affects one leg worse than others, although I would think it would affect all the legs to some degree. I can't think of a condition other than this that would cause the problem of spitting and sputtering in the line on just one leg. If you were only dealing with a volume issue on that one leg, then it could be the valve in the faucet, the screen stopped up, constriction in that leg, busted line etc, but the air in the line on just one leg really limits the things that it could be. If the water in the tank is turning to steam it will sometimes build up enough pressure to push water/steam out through the pop off/overflow. Check the overflow after the hot water has not been used for a couple of hours and see if there is any indication that water/steam has been pushed out. If so, then that is definitely your problem. If it is not a problem with the hot water overheating then I am at a loss on this one. I would love to know what you find when it is all said and done... THIS^^^
It is what it is.
Inspect what you Expect.
Hunting TN, AL, KY, and IL.
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 19,233 Likes: 27
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 19,233 Likes: 27 |
what westflgator said . i don't believe it a leak if you're losing pressure only in the kitchen.
Last edited by Frankie; 04/30/18 12:44 PM.
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,801
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,801 |
I'm pretty sure its not the faucet.. How will a faucet drain back to get air, especially if it has pressure against it? A leak in a slab will definitely cause air in the line because the water leaking out, will draw the water past the leak out of the lines. When you open the faucet, that's the path of least resistance so the water will come rushing back, pushing out the air
Its drawing the water from the kitchen faucet because that is the closest fixture to the leak more than likely
Last edited by Reno; 04/30/18 03:15 PM.
Roads? Where we're going, we dont need roads. ~Doc brown
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,801
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,801 |
i'm gonna ask a stupid question . how do you know its air ? water not coming out in a steady stream or are you hearing a it making a noise ?
When you turn it on, it spits and sputters for a couple of seconds. When the air is gone, it works fine. Or it did until the other day. Now there is hardly any pressure. How old is the water heater? Not sure. I believe it's 8-10 years, but I have only owned the house for 3 years. It makes loud noises, so im sure it will go out soon, but all the bathrooms have good hot water pressure and don't have the air in the line, so I'm not sure the heater would cause my problem. The more I think about the condition you are describing, I believe you have more than one problem. When you first asked the question I didn't realize it was only happening on one leg of your hot water, and then with the volume gradually getting worse as well, it leads me to believe you have two problems. You have the one issue causing air to get in that hot water leg, and then the spitting and sputtering has probably loosened up some trash that is clogging up the kitchen faucet as well. As far as the air in the line goes, I am pretty sure even if you had a leak in the slab you wouldn't have this condition because you would always have a positive pressure condition that wouldn't allow air to be "sucked" into the line. The more I think about it, you may want to check your hot water heater to see if it is overheating causing a vapor lock like condition. If the thermostat has gone bad or is set too high the water in the tank can become steam, and you will get steam in the line vs water which will cause a violent spitting and sputtering coming out of the hot water side of the line. This sometimes affects one leg worse than others, although I would think it would affect all the legs to some degree. I can't think of a condition other than this that would cause the problem of spitting and sputtering in the line on just one leg. If you were only dealing with a volume issue on that one leg, then it could be the valve in the faucet, the screen stopped up, constriction in that leg, busted line etc, but the air in the line on just one leg really limits the things that it could be. If the water in the tank is turning to steam it will sometimes build up enough pressure to push water/steam out through the pop off/overflow. Check the overflow after the hot water has not been used for a couple of hours and see if there is any indication that water/steam has been pushed out. If so, then that is definitely your problem. If it is not a problem with the hot water overheating then I am at a loss on this one. I would love to know what you find when it is all said and done... THIS^^^ A water heater would blow the F up if the water inside was steam.. The relief valve is set to trip at 150psi and if it did trip, it would probably keep on dripping since those valves set idle for so long. The popping sound is probably thermal expansion so I would add a expansion tank or change the one you have. Also a pressure guage on the water heater will tell you all you need to know. You could also need a pressure regulator A standard heater shouldn't go above 120-140 degrees, depending on make model..
Last edited by Reno; 04/30/18 03:22 PM.
Roads? Where we're going, we dont need roads. ~Doc brown
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,685
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,685 |
When you open the faucet, that's the path of least resistance so the water will come rushing back, pushing out the air
Its drawing the water from the kitchen faucet because that is the closest fixture to the leak more than likely
It there is a complete break in the line this may be true, but if that were the case he would have water coming up through the floor or running out from under the house. If there is just a leak this is not going to happen. Also, he indicated that the original issue was pretty hard spitting and sputtering which would indicate that initially it still had pretty good pressure until the faucet stopped up (I'm guessing). If there is a break in the line that was bad enough to let air in like you are describing there would be little to no pressure and while there may be some air mixed in with, I don't believe it wouldn't have enough pressure to spit and sputter so to speak.
Last edited by westflgator; 04/30/18 03:27 PM.
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,801
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,801 |
It absolutely will too... The water is more than likely following ditch lines under the slab and just running the gravel. The leak will probably never show itself on the outside for a long time He also mentioned pressure has dropped off in the kitchen sink 
Last edited by Reno; 04/30/18 03:25 PM.
Roads? Where we're going, we dont need roads. ~Doc brown
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,801
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,801 |
The line doesn't have to be completely broke down to cause these issues. A ball/gate valve has 80% flow when the valve is just opened 1/4 of the way
Roads? Where we're going, we dont need roads. ~Doc brown
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,685
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,685 |
The line doesn't have to be completely broke down to cause these issues. A ball/gate valve has 80% flow when the valve is just opened 1/4 of the way
I understand flow and pressure, but in order to suck air it would have to be broken bad enough that there was little to no pressure left on the leg going to the kitchen. In his initial description, he described the problem with the spitting and sputtering as if it was still under pressure. I can only speak from my experience and all of the leaks that I have seen in a slab either seep up through and wet the slab or there will be a wet spot somewhere coming out from under the house or both. I may very well be wrong but it will be interesting to see what he finds the problem to be...
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,801
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,801 |
The same thing happens with water mains and service lines when there is a significant leak
The spit and sputter described is the water rushing back since opening the valve lets the water rush past the leak.. opening the valve is the least resistant relative to the leak he has.
With so many variables each leak is different. Some are easy to find and other not so much..
I usually recommend American Leak Detection.. Once we determine there is a leak under a slab, we look at options to to fixing it. If there is no alternative other than cutting concrete, they will come out and locate the leak (they are good at it too) then we come in and fix the problem.
Insurance companies lately have been paying for everything minus the repair of the actual leak (the cheapest part) but insurance has covered all the excavating and putting it all back. Probably have to call your agent and ask about it
Last edited by Reno; 04/30/18 04:09 PM.
Roads? Where we're going, we dont need roads. ~Doc brown
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,183 Likes: 23
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,183 Likes: 23 |
I dealt with a slab leak at my Mothers house last summer. As stated before, turn all water off and go look at meter to see if it is spinning. At her house there was water coming out from under the slab making a wet spot in yard, also leaked in a closet between two bathrooms soaking the floor. It was a cold water line feeding the front bathroom. Easiest fix was to use Pex and reroute through the attic This was all copper and the copper going under slab had a sleeve it ran through. There was never any loss of pressure or spitting air. Figuring out how the lines are run is a pita.
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 238
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 238 |
I'm pretty sure its not the faucet.. How will a faucet drain back to get air, especially if it has pressure against it? A leak in a slab will definitely cause air in the line because the water leaking out, will draw the water past the leak out of the lines. When you open the faucet, that's the path of least resistance so the water will come rushing back, pushing out the air
Its drawing the water from the kitchen faucet because that is the closest fixture to the leak more than likely
The spout has an o-ring so that it can swivel left or right and if that is bad the water in the spout will leak out leaving only air in the spout. When you turn on the water it will sputter etc. I have replaced several faucets because of this. Not sure if it is the problem but is easy to eliminate. There is no pressure in the spout between the valve and the aerator unless the valve is on.
Off to Big Sky Country
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,801
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,801 |
I'm pretty sure its not the faucet.. How will a faucet drain back to get air, especially if it has pressure against it? A leak in a slab will definitely cause air in the line because the water leaking out, will draw the water past the leak out of the lines. When you open the faucet, that's the path of least resistance so the water will come rushing back, pushing out the air
Its drawing the water from the kitchen faucet because that is the closest fixture to the leak more than likely
The spout has an o-ring so that it can swivel left or right and if that is bad the water in the spout will leak out leaving only air in the spout. When you turn on the water it will sputter etc. I have replaced several faucets because of this. Not sure if it is the problem but is easy to eliminate. There is no pressure in the spout between the valve and the aerator unless the valve is on. I've never seen that.. I know the oring you speak and if its bad enough to leak down with no water on, I'm sure its soaking the counter tops with a little pressure behind it
Roads? Where we're going, we dont need roads. ~Doc brown
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 238
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 238 |
I'm pretty sure its not the faucet.. How will a faucet drain back to get air, especially if it has pressure against it? A leak in a slab will definitely cause air in the line because the water leaking out, will draw the water past the leak out of the lines. When you open the faucet, that's the path of least resistance so the water will come rushing back, pushing out the air
Its drawing the water from the kitchen faucet because that is the closest fixture to the leak more than likely
The spout has an o-ring so that it can swivel left or right and if that is bad the water in the spout will leak out leaving only air in the spout. When you turn on the water it will sputter etc. I have replaced several faucets because of this. Not sure if it is the problem but is easy to eliminate. There is no pressure in the spout between the valve and the aerator unless the valve is on. I've never seen that.. I know the oring you speak and if its bad enough to leak down with no water on, I'm sure its soaking the counter tops with a little pressure behind it It would be wet at the base of the faucet and not necessarily leaking very bad when in use unless the aerator is clogged.
Off to Big Sky Country
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 238
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 238 |
When I troubleshoot something like that I like to start at the end of the line, in this case the faucet, and work backwards.
Off to Big Sky Country
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,801
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,801 |
I say it's a hot line because each time you turn on the hot in the kitchen, it has air in the line. In the last week or so, the pressure has dropped by about 50%. This tells me you have a leak under your slab.. How else would air get into a closed, pressurized system? Its not orings in the faucet or your water heater working double duty as a pressure cooker. Cut everything off in your house and check the leak indicator at the meter. ok you have a leak, now look at options to see about fixing it. I'm not familiar with hokes bluff so I'm not sure how inspections are but if the house is all pvc/cpvc as you say, you need to find where it comes out of the slab and see what pipe they used underneath... It should be copper with ZERO solder joints under the slab (that's a big no no) if it is by chance pvc or cpvc I would abandoned all of it and start over... Depending on how it is plumbed, you may or may not have to abandon the hot side anyways.. Just food for thought.
Roads? Where we're going, we dont need roads. ~Doc brown
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 7,392 Likes: 13
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 7,392 Likes: 13 |
Turn EVERY water thing off and go check the spinner. If it’s even creeping you’ve got a leak. No spin = no water moving = no leak. I have a slab house and will never again. Leaks have been a nightmare.
“It’s enough to make a man feel sour. Burning minutes every day by the hour. Just to end up gone like everything else.”
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 17,635 Likes: 17
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 17,635 Likes: 17 |
Leak under the slab..... not good at all. I’d call a plumber and get ready to write a four digit check. Good luck with it. ![[Linked Image]](https://i.imgur.com/WzTghGj.jpg)
Jesus... I hope you know Him personally like I do.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.
Proud crossbow hunter!
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