Aldeer.com Forums Alabama Deer Talk ALTurkey Talk -- Beards and Spurs Predators!

We have one cat that shows up on camera every few weeks. Never saw it while hunting. Idk if I would shoot it or not, but wouldn't have a problem with someone shooting something legal. It would be awesome to have a full mount. If I ever see a "big cat" in Alabama you can bet your a$$ I would shoot one of those, but I don't think they are here.

If you do shoot it, don't ever tell anyone because you'll go to jail, or have to pay a fine, unless you convince them you feared for your life. Hell, they'ed fine you anyways, probably. BTW, I've been hunting the same piece of property for 30 years and have never found a dead turkey. I've found dead song birds, but never a turkey or any sign other than a single feather, so I guess the bobcats we have are terrible turkey hunters.

I think it’s all about habitat. If you don’t take out predators (yotes, coons, etc) then you’ll only have as many prey species (deer, turkey, etc) as you have prime bedding/nesting. In areas with 100’s and 1,000’s of acres of uninterrupted prime understory……there may an ample amount of bedding and nesting to support large prey numbers that are enough to satisfy the needs and wants of the hunters. In areas where prime bedding and nesting is limited and/or extremely fragmented…..the predators have a big advantage and will hold the prey populations at levels no higher than just what the limited bedding/nesting can produce. Also, when prime bedding becomes really fragmented it becomes an island and a magnet.

The area around south Marshall Co where my wife’s folks live is a good example. There are a few deer there but not very many. There’s plenty of food available to support many more deer than what they have. However, there’s very, very little prime bedding. Most properties are chicken and cattle farms broken up into 50 acres here…..200 acres there, etc…lots of pasture land. Even if there may be an area of good bedding here and there, it’s becomes an island. There’s also a thriving coyote population in his area due to how adaptive they are to different habitats and food sources. I’d say my FIL has more yotes around his place in Marshall Co than I do around mine in Macon.

There’s only two ways in which that little deer herd is gonna grow around my FIL’s place. Either they’ve got to completely change their way of life up there and recreate the habitat and understory across vast acreages……or they’ve got to take out a large portion of the predator population in order to allow those prey to reproduce in less than prime bedding/nesting areas. My FIL’s place in Marshall Co is an extreme case on one end of the spectrum. We’re all operating somewhere on that sliding scale though. Me personally, I’ve been trapping nest predators for the last couple of years because I’d like to see more turkeys around my place. With a little help we have the potential to have a much better population.

Love this post! Actually, you might be talking too much sense for some... be careful.

What cnc said

i'm not a wildlife biologist although i play one on TV/YouTube ... but regarding the fragmented habitat, i'd heard that if you get aggressive w/your predator hunting, the females respond in kind -- meaning, they go into heat & breed like wildfire to compensate for the ones taken out of the pack ... if that is indeed true, then in essence you're wasting your time w/yote killing efforts ... best to just take out what you can, when you see 'em, and let it ride ...

i'd be curious to know if empirical and/or observed studies have borne this out ...

They breed like wildefire now lol guess ive thrown too much lead there way

In theory I would agree with you and have argued that point…..I don’t know if it always holds true though when applied in the field. For example, last year when I was trapping coons it was said that they would fill back in and be just as thick within a few months. That is not holding true though. There are nowhere near as many in here this year and the ones I have caught have all been young juveniles except one. I look at trapping as just a means of protecting a given area while the young deer or turkeys are being born…...

hmmm... well you don't mention #'s/statistics, but if you're MOSTLY catching juveniles now vs. adults, wouldn't that actually support what i said/heard? IOW you're trapping mostly juveniles now b/c they're "bouncing back" from your trapping a year ago ...

I don't know that I necessarily agree that the females actually increase their breeding behavior or habits. My guess is that because they are competing with fewer predators, that they are healthier in general, and are probably more successful in birthing and raising their young. The young are also more likely to survive due to the lack of predatory competition and excess food supply. It's just the natural way for an ecosystem to maintain its balance.

Would they do a census every year to determine if they need to have more sex?

sounds like a good project for Whild Bill & CM

I look at those few juveniles as “immigration”. Those are dispersing young ones from the surrounding area looking to fill the void of the ones I took out last year. However, I have now taken those immigrants out and my protected area is once again pretty void of coons & possums during nesting season.

here's a song you can sing when you're going to check your traps - if you master that scream, no coon will be within 50 miles of you!

haha

had this old timer tell me, that the bobcats was the only natural predator to the coyote. That he believes the lower numbers in bobcats was part of the reason for the increase in yotes. But he felt like bobcats were more efficient turkey killers, so he shot them. He said he was kinda conflicted about it though, cause he felt like the cats helped keep the other turkey predators in check. He told me he witnessed a cat kill a hen turkey and couldnt let them walk anymore. He also told me if a person was managing there property for deer and not turkeys. He would let all the bobcats walk.

I figure the decrease in bobcats is due to direct competition from the yote…..kinda how foxes becomes more scarce when coyotes population increase.